Rape in the Civil War

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byron ed

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not viewing her like that is the textbook definition of sexism, don't you think?
Depends...

Viewing "her" as an opportunity to act out one's lust is not a textbook definition of sexism.

Viewing "her" as someone over which you have power is a textbook definition of sexism*

Rape could be either or both.



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*but not the only one -- there are entire books written on the post-century concept of sexism, one of the reasons it can be a bit inappropriate for historical assignation
 

byron ed

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...Sexism & racism is truly a vile thing. Combined it seems to create an exponential effect on the vileness of the resulting actions.
True, and in the case of rape lust and opportunity are bad enough!
 

MattL

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I can't stop what I never started. Anyway what an odd way to phrase things!
I absolutely agree, you should talk to that byron ed guy I was sarcastically copying when he said

For the period we're discussing here, defining rape as "sexism" disrespects the actual victims for what they experienced "on-the-ground." As far as they were concerned they weren't raped by "sexism;" they were raped by a brutal attacker.
Hence by you using "lust" and "opportunity" and being consistent (since I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are consistent) your argument applied to me, also applying sexism to that list, means you are being disrespectful by saying they were attacked by lust and opportunism.

It's not coincidental how nonsensical your nonsense sounds when used against you.

Lust and opportunity invoked many rapes in the South back in the day, Union and Confederate soldiers both the brutal attackers.
How disrespectful, in the words of byron ed.

What we today call sexism also invoked such attacks -- but, calmly, not nearly all of them.
Lol you can just use the word sexism you know. For the love of god, what is it with you and that word. What in your life lead you to pitch your battle on that specific word of all things.

"calmly" Is that the word you mean to use? Not sure what it means in this context. Multiple motivations and factors can invoke attacks, hence my entire point

racism + opportunism + sexism

To me a critical, if not "the" critical component is sexism. In the end to commit rape you have to be willing to, not just be alone with a woman and horny lol.
 
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rittmeister

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Depends...

Viewing "her" as an opportunity to act out one's lust is not a textbook definition of sexism.

Viewing "her" as someone over which you have power is a textbook definition of sexism*

Rape could be either or both.



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*but not the only one -- there are entire books written on the post-century concept of sexism, one of the reasons it can be a bit inappropriate for historical assignation
i wanted to reply to that but @MattL already did in post #63
 

MattL

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Depends...

Viewing "her" as an opportunity to act out one's lust is not a textbook definition of sexism.

Viewing "her" as someone over which you have power is a textbook definition of sexism*

Rape could be either or both.



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*but not the only one -- there are entire books written on the post-century concept of sexism, one of the reasons it can be a bit inappropriate for historical assignation
There are books written on everything, you shouldn't let them trigger your war on a commonly used term that communicates a concept that far precedes the time we're talking about. Again I referenced someone from 1868 saying

"I affirm that woman is by nature endowed with equal rights, social, political, and legal, with man. "

So someone who doesn't agree with the above being labeled with a word and that word being sexist doesn't need to avoided.
 

O' Be Joyful

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The thing to be careful about is dereliction in calling-out post-century hindsights being applied to the study of Antebellum and Civil War history, for the very reason that it is hindsight. For the period we're discussing here, defining rape as "sexism" disrespects the actual victims for what they experienced "on-the-ground." As far as they were concerned they weren't raped by "sexism;" they were raped by a brutal attacker.

And whatever psychobabble we might today assign to it, that's all sheer speculation on our part.


Just a suggestion.
 

byron ed

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I have was always taught that what people thought, at the time was history. How else?
And was there any history for use of the term "sexism" in the period we refer to? Well, no. oops.

Let's just be careful in using post-century terms for Antebellum and Civil War, and call it out when we see it, that's all.

We do no less in calling out another post-century term -- "black Confederates" -- and rightly so. Unchecked, how long will it be before the term "black lives matter" becomes de rigueur in discussions of Antebellum and Civil War history?

(geez, I kinda get the dude's point now)
 

byron ed

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...It's truly disgusting when you see people combine multiple "isms"...
Bingo! ...to whit
...me, also applying sexism to that list...racism + opportunism + sexism...To me a critical, if not "the" critical component is sexism...
...Our modern definitions for things like sexism or racism doesn't imply they didn't exist just because we didn't necessarily define it... the Civil War can be explained by both sexism and racism, including the combination thereof...references of rape in the Civil War can be explained by both sexism and racism, including the combination thereof...
 

byron ed

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...For the love of god, what is it with you and that word. What in your life lead you to pitch your battle on that specific word of all things...
...There are books written on everything, you shouldn't let them trigger your war on a commonly used term...

...such pumped-up vindictive over what was actually said
...I'm a little hesitant to be applying contemporary profiling terms to the Civil War...
...I never implied that sexism or racism didn't exist...We're in total agreement on that...
So again, calm down. Maybe read more carefully going forward. Nobody's been controverting the good points you've made on this thread.

As [diane] puts it
One war at a time... :D
 
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Jim Klag

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And was there any history for use of the term "sexism" in the period we refer to? Well, no. oops
The term "sexism" may not have been in use. Nor was "male chauvinist pig." But the concept, by whatever name it had, was surely in peoples' thoughts historically. Oops.
 

byron ed

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The term "sexism" may not have been in use...
More than that, the term "sexist" wasn't used at all at that time. But you get it: what we today call sexism and racism were in play back then -- not that anybody here has ever disagreed with that.
 
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Jim Klag

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More than that, the term "sexist" wasn't used at all at that time. But you get it: what we today call sexism and racism were in play back then -- not that anybody here has ever disagreed with that.
And yet you questioned @O' Be Joyful 's post about whether the people of that time thought about sexism and racism. So, in your post #69 you said to Obi,

And was there any history for use of the term "sexism" in the period we refer to? Well, no. oops.

Let's just be careful in using post-century terms for Antebellum and Civil War, and call it out when we see it, that's all
.

And in your last pote you say that, though the exact terms were not in use, sexism was in play back then, meaning it is absolutely possible that people though about it while calling it something else. So, in your last post you agree with Obi and in post #69 you disagree with him. WTF!
 

diane

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Going back to the OP, one does have to keep in mind how ill prepared the US was for this war, and that included military justice. The incredible hurdles here have been discussed but we must also add something was done about it. Post-CW, the military judiciary was over-hauled, and about 400 Union soldiers were tried for sexual crimes during the war, including those against black women and those against children. It produced an ethic of justice for sexual crimes and this was a vast improvement. It began to change attitudes and long-held beliefs, too. Gen O O Howard, postwar in charge of nailing the Nez Perce, shocked a tableful of high society dames by saying, quite vehemently, that any soldier who took an Indian wife then married a white wife was guilty of bigamy. Before the CW, it was very common for soldiers to marry an Indian and a white at the same time - Indian marriages were not recognized. Howard was advocating to recognize these marriage same as black marriage had been recognized. For all the horrors people experienced, the good that came out of it was seeing the problem for the first time and then doing something about it.
 

Leftyhunter

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Rape is not a crime of lust it is a crime of violence. It's not just sexism it's about sheer physical brutality. Rapists are just bad violent people not all soldiers rape but many do if the opportunity presents itself. Armies aren't made from just choir boys. A good soldier has to have the capacity for violence and be willing to risk his life. All armies are going to have troops who will rape for a variety of reasons not the least is their race or ethnicity is " better " then the woman they are raping therefore it's fine and dandy to rape. It's a sick way of looking at the world but that's who rapists think.
Not seeing why it's surprising that Union soldiers commited rape vs any other soldier in any other army.
Leftyhunter
 

byron ed

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...in your post #69 you said to Obi,...And was there any history for use of the term "sexism" in the period we refer to? Well, no...

...And in your last post you say that, though the exact terms were not in use, sexism was in play back then, meaning it is absolutely possible that people though about it while calling it something else. So, in your last post you agree with Obi and in post #69 you disagree with him.WTF!
No inconsistency whatsoever. I've never said sexism was not in play back then.* That can't be found anywhere in the thread.

Let's calmly go back to post #69 and read the actual salient points:
...jjust be careful in using post-century terms for Antebellum and Civil War...We do no less in calling out another post-century term-- "black Confederates" -- and rightly so. Unchecked, how long will it be before the term "black lives matter" becomes de rigueur in discussions of Antebellum and Civil War history?...


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* What's the point of fabricating an offense just to have something to to criticize? I understand it opens up yet another opportunity to use the F-bomb or to make some fecal reference -- but honestly should that be the driving motivation for one to participate in a Civil War forum? What's with having to "win" a thread anyway?
 

Jim Klag

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No inconsistency whatsoever. I've never said sexism was not in play back then.* That can't be found anywhere in the thread.

Let's calmly go back to post #69 and read the actual salient points:




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* What's the point of fabricating an offense just to have something to to criticize? I understand it opens up yet another opportunity to use the F-bomb or to make some fecal reference -- but honestly should that be the driving motivation for one to participate in a Civil War forum? What's with having to "win" a thread anyway?
Oops! Cute. Cherry picking again. The first thing you said in #69 was:

And was there any history for use of the term "sexism" in the period we refer to? Well, no. oops.
 
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