Black Confederates

Jim Klag said:

Especially if the shotgun is pointed at the wife and kids. Then the slave will say whatever massa wants.

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That was the unspoken part of the deal Forrest made with his slaves. He retained the women, children and old folks...and there was always that standing order for slaves on the sugar plantations in Louisiana!

It appears that, last gasps or not, the "black Confederates" fad has about played itself out.

This is a good article that I found that discuses the Black confederate/body servant issue:

diane said:

Can you point him out again, please? Maybe he's in the dungeon, but I can't find him. However, I did find your Post 104 - there you included 'loyal slave' in your definition of black Confederate. Is that still your default position?

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As Ive said a Black man who prefromed a function for the army or navy, that's my definition

General Lee said:

As Ive said a Black man who prefromed a function for the army or navy, that's my definition

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Ok, gotcha!

diane said:

Can you point him out again, please? Maybe he's in the dungeon, but I can't find him. However, I did find your Post 104 - there you included 'loyal slave' in your definition of black Confederate. Is that still your default position?

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Buckner, John
BATTLE UNIT NAME:1st Regiment, South Carolina Artillery
SIDE:Confederacy
COMPANY:I
SOLDIER'S RANK IN: private
SOLDIER'S RANK OUT: private
ALTERNATE NAME:
FILM NUMBER:M381
ROLL 5PLAQUE NUMBER:
NOTES:Battle Unit Note - (Formerly 1 Batt'n S.C. Art'y.)

From the soldiers and sailors database

General Lee said:

As Ive said a Black man who prefromed a function for the army or navy, that's my definition

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that is nonsense in the CSA army / navy there was a function called personal servant oops slave

any troops were registered as troops in any army (European or US American) past 1820
normally before the action but sometimes up to a month later (civilians being seen as soldiers for their actions)

"muster rolls" might read as : today the 10th Whatever buried recruit Robert E. Klag who gallan...

contemporary proof of this man as a soldier

either dead or alive

Wehrkraftzersetzer said:

that is nonsense in the CSA army / navy there was a function called personal servant oops slave

any troops were registered as troops in any army (European or US American) past 1820
normally before the action but sometimes up to a month later (civilians being seen as soldiers for their actions)

"muster rolls" might read as : today the 10th Whatever buried recruit Robert E. Klag who gallan...

contemporary proof of this man as a soldier

either dead or alive

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Nonsense to you, but it happened and in many cases.

byron ed said:

It appears that, last gasps or not, the "black Confederates" fad has about played itself out.

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Keep on pickin' it and deluding yourself if you wish, but that tune will never die.

Wehrkraftzersetzer said:

that is nonsense in the CSA army / navy there was a function called personal servant oops slave

any troops were registered as troops in any army (European or US American) past 1820
normally before the action but sometimes up to a month later (civilians being seen as soldiers for their actions)

"muster rolls" might read as : today the 10th Whatever buried recruit Robert E. Klag who gallan...

contemporary proof of this man as a soldier

either dead or alive

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Yes. We are really tired of postwar lists, or heresay, or posed postwar photos, or some white man who said he saw a black man . . . etc. Proof - from the confederate government during the war - that black men were SOLDIERS.

General Lee said:

Buckner, John
BATTLE UNIT NAME:1st Regiment, South Carolina Artillery
SIDE:Confederacy
COMPANY:I
SOLDIER'S RANK IN: private
SOLDIER'S RANK OUT: private
ALTERNATE NAME:
FILM NUMBER:M381
ROLL 5PLAQUE NUMBER:
NOTES:Battle Unit Note - (Formerly 1 Batt'n S.C. Art'y.)

From the soldiers and sailors database

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Doesn't check out, General. Both J A Buckner's are not listed as colored, which means they weren't.

Jim Klag said:

Yes. We are really tired of postwar lists, or heresay, or posed postwar photos, or some white man who said he saw a black man . . . etc. Proof - from the confederate government during the war - that black men were SOLDIERS.

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If your so tired of the evidence then you don't have to see it, I have used a variety of examples and you normally make some kind of excuse like oh the were holding a gun, oh another bogus letter (that was real by the way, all of them), when it's all said an done you haven't really proven anything wrong.

diane said:

Doesn't check out, General. Both J A Buckner's are not listed as colored, which means they weren't.

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It was John Wilson Buckner, not John A.

Once again loyalty and shooting,
THE PICTORIAL BOOK OF ANECDOTES AND INCIDENTS OF THE REBELLION (p. 319)
by Frazer Kirkland, 1889. A collection of Grand Army of the Republic -

"NEGRO RIFLEMAN BROUGHT DOWN AT YORKTOWN

One of the best morning's work done at Yorktown was that of reducing to a state of perfect inutility in this mundane sphere, a rebel negro
rifleman, who, through his skill as a marksman, had done more injury to our men than any dozen of his white compeers, in the attempted labor of
trimming off the complement of Union sharpshooters. The latter had known him a long time, had kept an eye on him, and lain in wait to pick him
off. His habit was to perch himself in a big tree, and, keeping himself hid behind the body, annoy the Union men by firing upon them. He climbed
the tree as usual one morning, but in advance of the others coming out, and, smuggling himself into his position, was anticipating his usual day
of quietude. The Union men might have killed him as he came out, but purposely avoided shooting, so as not to alarm the others. His tree was
about twenty rods from one of the Union pits. When our men fired on the advancing rebel pickets, he of course saw the fix he was in--that he was
indeed and decidedly up a tree.

'I say, big nigger,' called out one of the Union soldiers, 'you better come down from there.'

'What for?' returned the big nigger.

"I want you as prisoner,"

'Not as this chile knows of,' replied the concealed Ethiop.

'Just as you say,' replied our sharpshooter.

In about an hour the nigger poked his head out. Our man was on the lookout for him; he had his rifle on the bead-line ready--pulled the
trigger--whiz-z went the bullet, down came the nigger. He was shot through the head."


Looks to me he was loyal and a combatant who instead of running into Union lines who like many other shot at them instead.

Oops - ok!

You got a hit! Not a bull's eye. What you've got with Mr Buckner is a free black/Native slave owner from the Piedmont of South Carolina. He was made an 'honorary white man' in order to enlist...because he, like the whites, had a big investment in slavery.

diane said:

Oops - ok!

You got a hit! Not a bull's eye. What you've got with Mr Buckner is a free black/Native slave owner from the Piedmont of South Carolina. He was made an 'honorary white man' in order to enlist...because he, like the whites, had a big investment in slavery.

African Americans

For courses in History of African-Americans. Incorporating the basic features and narrative from 'The African-American Odyssey', this concise history presents its major episodes, issues and people.

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Yes, he was a former slave himself but he became successful and fought.

General Lee said:

If your so tired of the evidence then you don't have to see it, I have used a variety of examples and you normally make some kind of excuse like oh the were holding a gun, oh another bogus letter (that was real by the way, all of them), when it's all said an done you haven't really proven anything wrong.

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I have seen no evidence. You have shown exactly zero evidence of black confederate soldiers. A person who is formally in a military organization is called a SOLDIER. A servant who followed massa into the army is just a slave regardless of the chores he was made to do.

Jim Klag said:

I have seen no evidence. You have shown exactly zero evidence of black confederate soldiers. A person who is formally in a military organization is called a SOLDIER. A servant who followed massa into the army is just a slave regardless of the chores he was made to do.

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evidence proving a definition and what you wanna here are 2 different things, read the evidence above regarding the sharp shooter.

General Lee said:

evidence proving a definition and what you wanna here are 2 different things, read the evidence above regarding the sharp shooter.

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You know what evidence I require. Every real confederate soldier had a pay card. How many of your slaves had pay cards? You want to be able just to call them black confederates and everybody is just supposed to take your word for it. You are not even making any effort at real proof because you know it doesn't exist and in your world postwar lists or hearsay or bogus letters or posed postwar photos ard evidence. Pathetic is the only word I can use.

Jim Klag said:

You know what evidence I require. Every real confederate soldier had a pay card. How many of your slaves had pay cards? You want to be able just to call them black confederates and everybody is just supposed to take your word for it. You are not even making any effort at real proof because you know it doesn't exist and in your world postwar lists or hearsay or bogus letters or posed postwar photos ard evidence. Pathetic is the only word I can use.

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I've been pretty patient, trying to get you to understand. I have constantly been putting forth evidence wether it's quotes, letters, documents, photos, etc.
I have shown combatants, I've shown loyalty, I've shown numbers, I've shown photos, and an enlisted free man above.
Once again a Black Confederate was one who preformed a function for the Army or Navy.