Starving Grant's Army... Scorched Earth...

[diane]

Davis also exhorted the people to grab their pitchforks out of the hay stack and use them on the Yankees, and so did some of his generals - like Beauregard. He wanted to give them the illusion that things were not near as bad as it looked, just a little more push, hang in there.... That's what Sherman wanted to shatter. He wanted the people to know there was no survival value in supporting the Confederacy any longer. If he could walk up onto your front porch and toss a lit cigar into your living room, somebody was fibbing to you!

 

[O' Be Joyful]

One can also argue that any Captain Obvious could of decided to do the March on Georgia since there was precenent about living of the land and by late summer of 1864 the Confederacy was in bad shape as Davis acknowlged in his prior speech in Macon, Georgia where he openly admitted that two thirds of the army was AWOL.
On the other hand to victor goes the spoils.
Kirk's Raiders

IIRC, Sherman also had the current census results from Georgia and had taken an extensive trip through Ga. during his early army career. So he knew the ground, which kinda helps.

 

[jgoodguy]

One can also argue that any Captain Obvious could of decided to do the March on Georgia since there was precenent about living of the land and by late summer of 1864 the Confederacy was in bad shape as Davis acknowlged in his prior speech in Macon, Georgia where he openly admitted that two thirds of the army was AWOL.
On the other hand to victor goes the spoils.
Kirk's Raiders

Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

IIRC, Sherman also had the current census results from Georgia and had taken an extensive trip through Ga. during his early army career. So he knew the ground, which kinda helps.

True but more importantly Sherman knew his only opposition would be 5k or so Confederate Calvery under General Wheeler plus the Georgia State Militia so not much they can do against 60k experienced Union troops.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan.

A J.F.K. quote, but I am not positive if it was original. Or written by one of his ghost-writers, Sorenson possibly?

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Confederate Calvery under General Wheeler plus the Georgia State Militia

And they were accused of being as bad as Sherman w/ their slash and burn tactics in his front--or perhaps to the side ; ), which Wheeler largely escaped blame for in the post-war (lost cause) years and was later "pinned" on Sherman. There were many letters to Jeff. Davis about the depredations of Wheeler's troops and their affiliates.

 

[jgoodguy]

Davis also exhorted the people to grab their pitchforks out of the hay stack and use them on the Yankees, and so did some of his generals - like Beauregard. He wanted to give them the illusion that things were not near as bad as it looked, just a little more push, hang in there.... That's what Sherman wanted to shatter. He wanted the people to know there was no survival value in supporting the Confederacy any longer. If he could walk up onto your front porch and toss a lit cigar into your living room, somebody was fibbing to you!

That did wonders for Lee's Georgia troopers' morale in the Army of Northern Virginia.

 

[diane]

That did wonders for Lee's Georgia troopers' morale in the Army of Northern Virginia.

Yes, it sure did! Sherman and Grant were the dynamic duo of the CW, like a team of synchronized swimmers. Yankees in your front yard sure beat Yankees in a ditch in front of a town you never saw before. It's interesting to think that if Jackson had lived, he and Lee might have worked out a similar partnership. Except...Grant had a streak of utter ruthlessness that Lee did not have. As aggressive as he was, Lee wasn't capable of total destruction of the enemy - but Jackson was perfectly capable of striking them hip and thigh!

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Yankees in your front yard

I would put it as yankees through your back-yard.

"3 yards and a cloud of dust" "That team Up north.'--Woody Hayes, THE... Ohio State University.

On, OHIO, win, win, win!

 

[diane]

Yep! In your front yard, back yard, in your cellar, eating all your food... Suddenly their general was Sherman. Whenever he moved, a whole bunch of Lee's men did, too!

 

[jgoodguy]

The South was short on leaders to begin with and got them killed off early.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Yes, it sure did! Sherman and Grant were the dynamic duo of the CW, like a team of synchronized swimmers. Yankees in your front yard sure beat Yankees in a ditch in front of a town you never saw before. It's interesting to think that if Jackson had lived, he and Lee might have worked out a similar partnership. Except...Grant had a streak of utter ruthlessness that Lee did not have. As aggressive as he was, Lee wasn't capable of total destruction of the enemy - but Jackson was perfectly capable of striking them hip and thigh!

Not so sure about Lee not being vicious I.e. kidnapping freed blacks in Pennsylvania. Lee's goal in Pennsylvania was to size a major Union City and demoralize the Union public. If his men made war on Union civilians that just enrages the Union public which will quickly return the favor.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[jgoodguy]

Not so sure about Lee not being vicious I.e. kidnapping freed blacks in Pennsylvania. Lee's goal in Pennsylvania was to size a major Union City and demoralize the Union public. If his men made war on Union civilians that just enrages the Union public which will quickly return the favor.
Kirk's Raiders

Lee pillaged enough from PN to keep his Army going Through the rest of 63 and 64. His original plan was to stay in PN and live off the land, but Meade messed that up.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Lee pillaged enough from PN to keep his Army going Through the rest of 63 and 64. His original plan was to stay in PN and live off the land, but Meade messed that up.

I doubt there was enough wagon's to carry of the wounded let alone enough food for tens of thousands of men to live off of in 1864. I recall many wounded Confederate soldiers were left to the Union due to lack of wagon's.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[jgoodguy]

I doubt there was enough wagon's to carry of the wounded let alone enough food for tens of thousands of men to live off of in 1864. I recall many wounded Confederate soldiers were left to the Union due to lack of wagon's.
Kirk's Raiders

Odd I recall that Lee got most of the supplies and wounded back to Virginia. Jeb captured a whole Union Wagon train.

 

[diane]

I'm kind of surprised that hasn't been discussed about Lee's plans in Pennsylvania. It's always pointed out that he didn't have enough force to keep the territory if he won it, nor could he threaten Washington. But one of his big motivations for entering Pennsylvania was to relieve pressure on Virginia and to get materiel for his army. Sherman didn't plan to keep Georgia either - his army wasn't big enough to occupy everything they marched over, but they made a real good swarm of locusts. Wherever they camped they were the biggest city in the South outside New Orleans.

Davis had caved to the crazy planters about their slaves - told Lee to bring them back wherever he found them. Lee said yessir and went on about important matters - he wasn't about to turn the ANV into a big slave catching posse! (And he sure didn't expect Meade of all people to be getting the lead out like he did - the AoP never moved so fast.)

Got to say, think Stuart and Imboden really covered themselves with good in their defense of Lee's retreat from Gettysburg. Very well done. That's what they needed the wagons for...

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Odd I recall that Lee got most of the supplies and wounded back to Virginia. Jeb captured a whole Union Wagon train.

Still Confederate wounded were left behind. To feed tens of thousands of men for a year based on one captured wagon train is a bit much.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

I'm kind of surprised that hasn't been discussed about Lee's plans in Pennsylvania. It's always pointed out that he didn't have enough force to keep the territory if he won it, nor could he threaten Washington. But one of his big motivations for entering Pennsylvania was to relieve pressure on Virginia and to get materiel for his army. Sherman didn't plan to keep Georgia either - his army wasn't big enough to occupy everything they marched over, but they made a real good swarm of locusts. Wherever they camped they were the biggest city in the South outside New Orleans.

Davis had caved to the crazy planters about their slaves - told Lee to bring them back wherever he found them. Lee said yessir and went on about important matters - he wasn't about to turn the ANV into a big slave catching posse! (And he sure didn't expect Meade of all people to be getting the lead out like he did - the AoP never moved so fast.)

Got to say, think Stuart and Imboden really covered themselves with good in their defense of Lee's retreat from Gettysburg. Very well done. That's what they needed the wagons for...

There are letters Lee wrote to Davis discussing Lee's strategy in Pennsylvania. I would have to ask someone on a certain forum who's name will go unmentioned about them.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[diane]

According to James McPherson, Lee had five stated objectives which he conveyed to Davis:
1) Draw Union forces out of Virginia, away from the breadbasket valley Shenandoah - they were doing plenty of damage there
2) Prevent reinforcements from reaching Hooker, remove the initiative from that general and put him on defense
3) Weaken the Rappahannock line
4) Weaken Union forces in other theaters - force them to shift to protect Hooker
5) Gather provisions, horses, grain and other foodstuffs and supplies from the untouched Pennsylvania countryside

Another objective was to bring the brutality and cost of the war home to the North. Davis added a sop to the planters, which was to drag back the black folk from there. Some of Lee's irregulars did that - in fact, some got so preoccupied with it they may have damaged Lee.

These objectives Davis was made aware of were also lined out with Hooker in mind. Lee had Hooker's number, which is why he slyly called him Mr F J Hooker! He knew he could beat Fightin' Joe. Meade was a totally wild card flung in from the outer ring of Jupiter. As Lee said, "He will not make a mistake before me and I had better not make one before him!"

 

[5fish]

I found this that General Grant would leave his wounded behind for the confederates to take care of them.... page 223 in the middle .... he used them to burden the enemy...

Gangrene and Glory

This unusual history of the Civil War takes a close look at the battlefield doctors in whose hands rested the lives of thousands of Union and Confederate soldiers and at the makeshift medicine they were forced to employ. A medical doctor and a credentialed historian, Frank R. Freemon combines...

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