Why Gun Control is stupid

Kirk's Raider's

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,225
Reaction score
917
The current riots in Minneapolis and elsewhere show the futility of gun control.
Over and over again rioters have chased away the police who now need to wait for the National Guard to slowly restore order. Mean time the police who in the best of time " when seconds count the police are only minutes away" simply can't respond.
Yes no question the police in Minneapolis where criminally brutal.
I have arrested and detained combative suspect's and handcuffed them along with my fellow security guards and we never put our knees on their necks for over seven minutes. Yes Floyd was already handcuffed and there is no excuse to pin his neck to the ground while handcuffed.
The above does not excuse the rioters but it shows that even in a progressive city the police simply can't protect the citizens . American citizens just have to accept that ultimately they must be their own first responders to violent criminal attack. The police simply can't protect American citizens from violence at the time it happens at least in the vast majority of time.
Kirk's Raiders
 

Jim Klag

Ike the moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
3,226
Reaction score
2,235
The current riots in Minneapolis and elsewhere show the futility of gun control.
Over and over again rioters have chased away the police who now need to wait for the National Guard to slowly restore order. Mean time the police who in the best of time " when seconds count the police are only minutes away" simply can't respond.
Yes no question the police in Minneapolis where criminally brutal.
I have arrested and detained combative suspect's and handcuffed them along with my fellow security guards and we never put our knees on their necks for over seven minutes. Yes Floyd was already handcuffed and there is no excuse to pin his neck to the ground while handcuffed.
The above does not excuse the rioters but it shows that even in a progressive city the police simply can't protect the citizens . American citizens just have to accept that ultimately they must be their own first responders to violent criminal attack. The police simply can't protect American citizens from violence at the time it happens at least in the vast majority of time.
Kirk's Raiders
And WTF does this have to do with gun control?
 

Kirk's Raider's

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,225
Reaction score
917
And WTF does this have to do with gun control?
Everything because the current situation proves that American government is incapable of ensuring it's citizens of safety. Local goverment's can't even defend police stations never mind citizens.
Kirk's Raiders
 

Jim Klag

Ike the moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
3,226
Reaction score
2,235
Interesting theory. The second amendment came about because the one thing the founders were unanimous in not wanting was a standing professional Army. The first clause of the amendment makes that abundantly clear. It has nothing to do with some inherent right to own a gun, but that the gun owner is to be ready for the well regulated militia and it would be best if he supplied his own rifle. There were almost no privately owned pistols except for dueling pistols during the early years of the country. It seems to me that a government like we have today makes gun control absolutely vital. The alt-right government haters own all the guns. Their boy Trump would be the only one to live through the massacre and then you would have the Trump dictatorship and all the Trumpsters could get their brown shirts, white hoods and arm bands out of the closet and learn how to say "Sieg Heil!"
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
4,030
Reaction score
2,630
Everything because the current situation proves that American government is incapable of ensuring it's citizens of safety.
I respectively disagree with your conclusion. ... There have been few deaths during the riots, not during the peaceful protest...

You and others scream about the 2nd amendment but you all seem to allow your Constitution right to peacefully assemble to be trampled on, like yesterday in Washington DC ... Or people being shot at on their front porches with rubber bullets.

You all should be upset that our president going to call out the military to quail your Constitution right to peacefully assemble...
 

Kirk's Raider's

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,225
Reaction score
917
I respectively disagree with your conclusion. ... There have been few deaths during the riots, not during the peaceful protest...

You and others scream about the 2nd amendment but you all seem to allow your Constitution right to peacefully assemble to be trampled on, like yesterday in Washington DC ... Or people being shot at on their front porches with rubber bullets.

You all should be upset that our president going to call out the military to quail your Constitution right to peacefully assemble...
I am not a Trump supporter but he said no such thing as quelling the right to protest. It's a fact that there is a nation wide break down in law and order and the police in certain cities are failing to keep law and order.
It is a fact that the police can't protect citizens from criminals. People need to protect themselves.
Kirk's Raiders
 

Kirk's Raider's

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,225
Reaction score
917
Interesting theory. The second amendment came about because the one thing the founders were unanimous in not wanting was a standing professional Army. The first clause of the amendment makes that abundantly clear. It has nothing to do with some inherent right to own a gun, but that the gun owner is to be ready for the well regulated militia and it would be best if he supplied his own rifle. There were almost no privately owned pistols except for dueling pistols during the early years of the country. It seems to me that a government like we have today makes gun control absolutely vital. The alt-right government haters own all the guns. Their boy Trump would be the only one to live through the massacre and then you would have the Trump dictatorship and all the Trumpsters could get their brown shirts, white hoods and arm bands out of the closet and learn how to say "Sieg Heil!"
Not true about the Alt Right owns all the guns. Gun owners come from all politcal and ,racial and religious backgrounds.
Kirk's Raiders
 

Kirk's Raider's

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,225
Reaction score
917
Interesting theory. The second amendment came about because the one thing the founders were unanimous in not wanting was a standing professional Army. The first clause of the amendment makes that abundantly clear. It has nothing to do with some inherent right to own a gun, but that the gun owner is to be ready for the well regulated militia and it would be best if he supplied his own rifle. There were almost no privately owned pistols except for dueling pistols during the early years of the country. It seems to me that a government like we have today makes gun control absolutely vital. The alt-right government haters own all the guns. Their boy Trump would be the only one to live through the massacre and then you would have the Trump dictatorship and all the Trumpsters could get their brown shirts, white hoods and arm bands out of the closet and learn how to say "Sieg Heil!"
Different courts have ruled differently on gun laws. The 9th Circuit Court ruled in Peruses v.San Diego that California can regulate through a very vague law who can receive a concealed fire arms permit and who can't vs the 7th Circuit Court that rulled more broadly.
The US Supreme Court punted on an appeal of the Peruses case. If Trump wins reelection then the Supreme Court with me conservative members might take another look at that case.
Kirk's Raiders
 

Jim Klag

Ike the moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
3,226
Reaction score
2,235
Not true about the Alt Right owns all the guns. Gun owners come from all politcal and ,racial and religious backgrounds.
Kirk's Raiders
If you took a poll of gun owners, a huge percentage would call themselves conservative or very conservative.
 

Kirk's Raider's

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,225
Reaction score
917
If you took a poll of gun owners, a huge percentage would call themselves conservative or very conservative.
Many people of color own firearms because they know the police can't protect them. Many Democrats hunt as well or used to back in the day.
I don't know how much more evidence needs to be presented that the police have failed utterly to protect citizens in many cities accross the US.
Kirk's Raiders
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
4,030
Reaction score
2,630
Gun control was the rage in the Old Western towns... We need to learn no guns no killing...
 

nicholls

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
34
Reaction score
30
Gun control was the rage in the Old Western towns... We need to learn no guns no killing...
I think I respectively disagree with your conclusion. on this 5fish, here is a quote from the comments section of the story you posted which I agree with:

The practice was started in Southern states, which were among the first to enact laws against concealed carry of guns and knives, in the early 1800s. While a few citizens challenged the bans in court, most lost. Winkler, in his book Gunfight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America, points to an 1840 Alabama court that, in upholding its state ban, ruled it was a state’s right to regulate where and how a citizen could carry, and that the state constitution’s allowance of personal firearms “is not to bear arms upon all occasions and in all places.”"

Oddly, both the author AND Mr. Winkler conveniently neglect to mention that such laws were passed, almost without exception, to suppress the Rights of freed slaves and free-born "Negros", and almost never used against whites.

I think it's important to note that many cowboys were black or Mexican and I assume that the powers that were just couldn't abide them being armed. If gun control has taught us anything, it's that it is typically used to prevent the poor and minorities from carrying firearms. I also imagine that many laws were (many still are) selectively enforced.
 

nicholls

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
34
Reaction score
30
The defendant in the Alabama case was the sheriff of Montgomery County. http://claytoncramer.com/pr...
While some towns regulated firearms, most states did not. The South did so before the Civil War to deal with a regional problem now behind us: duelling. http://claytoncramer.com/po...
Kentucky's Supreme Court was not unique in striking down gun control laws. Georgia's Supreme Court struck down a ban on pistols as contrary to the Second Amendment: http://claytoncramer.com/pr...
Other state supreme courts recognized the vSecond Amendment as limiting various forms of arms control: Texas, http://claytoncramer.com/pr... Louisiana, http://claytoncramer.com/pr.... Others were explicit that blacks could be disarmed: Georgia, http://claytoncramer.com/pr... North Carolina, http://claytoncramer.com/pr....
After the Civil War racism was the primary mortivation for gun control in the South: http://claytoncramer.com/sc.... California's current concealed weapon law (which they are vigorously defending) was adopted for the purpose of disarming Mexicans and Chinese: http://claytoncramer.com/pr...
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
4,030
Reaction score
2,630
I respectively disagree with your conclusion.
I was not concluding gun control started in the West. I was pointing out that in the Wild West many towns had gun lwas banning the wearing of guns in the town. Towns associated with the old wild west did not have that many shooting with these laws in place...

it's that it is typically used to prevent the poor and minorities from carrying firearms. I
There is truth in these words many early gun control laws were design limit black people excess to guns and later other minority groups...

points to an 1840 Alabama court that,
The SCOTUS rules the Bill of Rights did not apply to States in a ruling in 1833... This ruling is one of the reasons the 14th amendment was needed after the Civil War. One the the arguments for the 14th amendment was it would ensure Freedmen could bear arms...

In the 1833 case of Barron v. Baltimore, the Supreme Court of the United States held that the Bill of Rights did not apply to state governments; such protections were instead provided by the constitutions of each state.
 

Tom

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
614
Reaction score
499
"Why Gun Control is stupid?"

Because of where these people are going.

Lithuania 1941

1617847663029.png

Poland 1942
1617848007526.png
 
Top