Was the American Civil War actually the American Self-coup?

TomEvans

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A self-coup, is a form of coup d'état in which a political leader, having come to power through legal means, increases their own power illegally through the actions of themselves or their supporters.[ The leader may dissolve or render powerless the national legislature and unlawfully assume extraordinary powers.
Unlike a traditional coup d'état where an outside group like the military removes the executive, a self-coup is initiated from within the existing government, often by undermining or subverting other branches of government or electoral outcomes.
Other measures may include annulling the constitution, suspending civil courts, and having the head of government assume dictatorial powers.

In the case of the American Civil War, the USA was an international union of 34 (originally 13) states, which were separate sovereign nations; with each such sovereign nation being supremely ruled by its respective electorate, or "people"

While there were disputes over state vs. federal power, and threats of state secession; by the mid-1800's, this union which was facing increased threats of usurpation; with this officially starting under the Jackson Administration precedent of legislating provision for federal military force against the individual states, under the fabricated historical claim that it had always been a national union:


jackson.png

And this followed some 24 years later, by threats to exercise such force against seceding states:

lincoln fremont.png

And so when states seceded from the Union on the basis of their respective national sovereignty:


South Carolina.png

Then the Lincoln Administration fabricated more history, in order to legally authorize his prior threatened actions:

lincoln.png

And so the Lincoln Administration engaged a self-coup against the 34 sovereign nations which were the American states, seizing power and claimed national sovereignty, under the false pretense of "suppressing insurrection and saving the nation."

truth-is-always-the-first-casualty-of-war-aeschylus-126-82-06.jpg

And so, the government officials illegally usurped supreme national authority, from the voters of each state as a sovereign nation; to the government officials of a single covert totalitarian regime-- and through them, to the Crony Capitalists who profited most from the takeover.

Meanwhile true popular democracy (i.e. final power in the hands of state voters), became a facade of consensual government, under "indirect democracy" of sheer ultimatum in choosing supreme rulers.

Accordingly, the evidence appears to conclusively demonstrate that there was indeed no "civil war," which by definition occurs between citizens of the same sovereign nation; but a self-coup over an international union, to claim a national union where none existed in reality.
 

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LJMYERS

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I actually have a better picture of this but you get the idea. From the records of Union General John C Fremont and his aid from Texas CSA Col John Jacob Myers. John C Fremont was nominated to be President in Pittsburgh by Francis Preston Blair who was married to Violet Gist who was the granddaughter of Explorer Christopher Gist who some people say pulled George Washington out of Turtle Creek with the Widow Myers looking on.
 

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TomEvans

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Small world.
Now what does that have to do with this topic?
 

LJMYERS

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Abraham Lincoln????? Just found out that the Illegal Orders Mark Kelly was talking about was only for German and Japanese Solders during WWII. It was not for highly respected USA Generals and Admirals under the Secretary of War. From the records of Sgt John C Woods and his rope.
 

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5fish

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In the case of the American Civil War, the USA was an international union of 34 (originally 13) states, which were separate sovereign nations; with each such sovereign nation being supremely ruled by its respective electorate, or "people"
This is tripe... Lincoln pushed the bounds of Presidential powers, but it was not a coup, for he was willing to step down if he had lost the 1864 election... He never hamstrung the courts or abolished Congress, like your link to self-coup talk about... good try, though...
 

5fish

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Small world.
Now what does that have to do with this topic?
@LJMYERS is our visiting troll, you get used to him in time... He does know stuff, but only enjoys his family history, myths, lore, and folklore, not factual history unless you dig it up for him...
 

5fish

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While there were disputes over state vs. federal power, and threats of state secession; by the mid-1800's, this union which was facing increased threats of usurpation; with this officially starting under the Jackson Administration precedent of legislating provision for federal military force against the individual states, under the fabricated historical claim that it had always been a national union:
You have no clue what is fabricated and what is the truth... WE are a union of states, it is plain and simple, and other nations do not refer to individual states but to the entity they created the United States of America...
 

LJMYERS

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Just maybe there is someone named Lincoln Fremont. Although Lincoln and Fremont are very common names like Carnegie and Mellon or Lewis and Clark. Then Dr Abraham Lincoln Eisenhower DVM would know CSA Col John Jacob Myers. Both worked the cattle drives in Texas at the same time. Then Abraham Lincoln worked the flat boats out of Pittsburgh by Confederate Spy Belle Boyd records. Research is simple if you use the George Tyler Moore records on the Civil War. George Tyler Moore's daughter was actress Mary Tyler Moore who was related to CSA General Stonewall Jackson.
 

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LJMYERS

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Matters not to me if Christoper Gist pulled George Washington out of Turtle Creek with the Widow Myers looking on or the Widow Myers pulled George Washington out of Turtle Creek with Christopher Gist looking on. Both work for me.
 

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LJMYERS

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Christopher Gist is good enough for me. What is not debunked is Turtle Creek and their families in this painting. Christopher Gist is a very interesting person. He was born in Baltimore or so people say. He died in Richmond and so other people say. One thing for sure, you do not want to talk about Christopher Gist and his granddaughter Violet Gist who married Francis Preston Blair.
 

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TomEvans

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This is tripe... Lincoln pushed the bounds of Presidential powers, but it was not a coup, for he was willing to step down if he had lost the 1864 election... He never hamstrung the courts or abolished Congress, like your link to self-coup talk about... good try, though...
Lincoln claimed:

Having never been States, either in substance or in name, outside of the Union, whence this magical omnipotence of "State rights," asserting a claim of power to lawfully destroy the Union itself?

Much is said about the "sovereignty" of the States, but the word even is not in the National Constitution, nor, as is believed, in any of the State constitutions.

What is a "sovereignty" in the political sense of the term? Would it be far wrong to define it "a political community without a political superior"?

Tested by this, no one of our States, except Texas, ever was a sovereignty;
and even Texas gave up the character on coming into the Union, by which act she acknowledged the Constitution of the United States and the laws and treaties of the United States made in pursuance of the Constitution to be for her the supreme law of the land.

... y the Declaration of Independence... the 'United Colonies' were declared to be 'free and independent States;' but even then the object plainly was not to declare their independence of one another or of the Union, but directly the contrary...."

The States have their status in the Union, and they have no other legal status. If they break from this, they can only do so against law and by revolution.
So Lincoln held that the Declaration of Independence, established the Union as politically superior to the states, from the very beginning in 1776; and the states ALWAYS had the Union as their political superior while in the Union,

But in reality, the Declaration of Independence reads as follows:


We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British crown and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved; and that, as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do.

This was discerned from what the Law of Nations defined in Book I, Chapter I, §11: “Of a state that has passed under the dominion of another:”


But a people that has passed under the dominion of another is no longer a state, and can no longer avail itself directly of the law of nations. Such were the nations and kingdoms which the Romans rendered subject to their empire; the generality even of those whom they honoured with the name of friends and allies no longer formed real states. Within themselves, they were governed by their own laws and magistrates; but without, they were in every thing obliged to follow the orders of Rome; they dared not of themselves either to make war or contract alliances; and could not treat with nations.

Meanwhile The Declaration of Independence was framed in the language of the "Law of Nations," to justify the American colonies' separation from Great Britain to the world, and to gain international recognition and support. It argued that the colonies had the right, under the law of nature and of nature's God, to separate e and form their own independent states. This established the new United States as independent actors with the power to engage in diplomacy, war, and commerce, just like any other sovereign nations. And the states were individually recognized as sovereign nations in the Treaty of Paris.

Therefore, since the Declaration of Independence asserted that the states could “make war, contract alliances, treat with other nations,“ and “do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do;” the states were not under the dominion of another, and thus were 13 separate sovereign nations, with NO political superior.

And before the Constitution, each state was supremely ruled by its respective legislature-- not the US government.
 

TomEvans

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You have no clue what is fabricated and what is the truth... WE are a union of states, it is plain and simple,
So are the UN and the EU. Free, sovereign and independent states.

I don't recall Brexit being called an "insurrection against the national union."

So it is a fabrication, to claim that the Declaration of Independence established the Union as political superior to the states on Day 1.
 

5fish

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This was discerned from what the Law of Nations defined in Book I, Chapter I, §11: “Of a state that has passed under the dominion of another:”
You are incorrect that Jefferson used the Law of Nations, which was a book... Jefferson used the Natural Rights to frame our Declaration of Independence...

Thomas Jefferson drew heavily upon the concept of natural rights when writing the United States Declaration of Independence [1].
The philosophy was most famously articulated by the English philosopher John Locke, who argued that all individuals possess inherent rights bestowed by God, not by government [1]. Jefferson adapted this core principle, framing it as "self-evident" truths [1]



 

5fish

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@TomEvans ... You need to read or watch philosophy books and videos...

 

TomEvans

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You are incorrect that Jefferson used the Law of Nations, which was a book... Jefferson used the Natural Rights to frame our Declaration of Independence...

Thomas Jefferson drew heavily upon the concept of natural rights when writing the United States Declaration of Independence [1].
The philosophy was most famously articulated by the English philosopher John Locke, who argued that all individuals possess inherent rights bestowed by God, not by government [1]. Jefferson adapted this core principle, framing it as "self-evident" truths [1]
I never said Jefferson did.

I said:

The Declaration of Independence was framed in the language of the "Law of Nations," to justify the American colonies' separation from Great Britain to the world, and to gain international recognition and support. It argued that the colonies had the right, under the law of nature and of nature's God, to separate e and form their own independent states. This established the new United States as independent actors with the power to engage in diplomacy, war, and commerce, just like any other sovereign nations.
That was the framing intent.
 

TomEvans

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@TomEvans ... You need to read or watch philosophy books and videos...
Let's just stick to the facts, shall we?

The Declaration of Independence declared the states as an international union of 13 separate sovereign nations.

NOT THIS:

lincoln.png
 

LJMYERS

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Friends of Thomas Jefferson. The Phillips family. Not saying they are related to the Light Bulb people but it seems so. From the records of the family of Sacajawea.
 

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5fish

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The Declaration of Independence declared the states as an international union of 13 separate sovereign nations.
Did you read Lincoln's words? The last paragraph explains it all... the posted quotes are not facts... Your arguments are not fleshed out and are not supported by historical events or by any philosophical argument in anyone's writing...
 
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