Thomas Jefferson to George Washington

nicholls

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
91
Reaction score
56
I was arguing with a libertarian and he mentioned Thomas Jefferson's 1792 letter to George Washington in that he predicted secession. I would like people's opinions on this:





"you are citing your own woke revisionist history, which does not appear in any history books prior to 1960. In his 1792 letter to Washington, Jefferson predicted that the South would secede for reasons that had noting to do with Slavery. The causes were:
* A massive public debt to Northern banks,
* Tariffs,
* Excise taxes such as the Whiskey Tax, which produced revolt in all agrarian sectors,
* A shortage of government money and artificial dependence on bank notes,
* A corrupt legislature that ignores Constitutional limits,
* A shift toward monarchial behavior,
* Debt slavery,
* Consistent sacrifice of Southern interests to Northern ones,
* A reinterpretation of the Constitution to allow what Federalists had declared it would not allow,
Jefferson wanted Washington to accept a second term so that the union would hold until these problems could be corrected, but they were never corrected more than temporarily (as when Jefferson paid down the debt, only to see it reinstituted). To the contrary, they became continually worse, with 80% of the tariffs being collected on goods consumed in the South and 70% of the revenue spent in the North, with bounties paid to Northern fishermen and outrageous tariffs to protect Northern industries, and with a massive expansion of abuses by Northern banks.
None of this can be acknowledged by the woke revisionists, who are obsessed with blaming everything on slavery. Instead, they must cherry-pick documents to support their claims, and additionally cherry-pick passages to support their interpretations of those documents.

Well, see what you can cherry-pick from this:



If have never heard this letter discussed before regarding secession and would like more educated a
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
The
To the contrary, they became continually worse, with 80% of the tariffs being collected on goods consumed in the South and 70% of the revenue spent in the North, with bounties paid to Northern fishermen and outrageous tariffs to protect Northern industries, and with a massive expansion of abuses by Northern banks.
I have shown over and over this lie about high tariffs by the time of the war and even way before the war.

Jefferson wanted Washington to accept a second term so that the union would hold
This letter is an indirect attack on Hamilton by Jefferson his revival. He was trying to create a wedge between Washington and Hamilton and it could have for Washington did rewrite Jefferson's concerns and sent them to Hamilton to respond too but Washington implies these question came from Mason... Hamilton answered them to Washington satisfaction...

Nevertheless, the President did not casually dismiss TJ’s criticism of the Secretary of the Treasury. Towards the end of the same month he dispatched a letter to Hamilton in which he quoted almost verbatim all the objections to the Hamiltonian program made by TJ in the letter above and asked for comments on them. In doing so, however, Washington took care to conceal TJ’s authorship of the charges, attributing them to George Mason and other unspecified critics of the federal government. The Secretary of the Treasury responded with a detailed rebuttal of TJ’s criticism of his policies, in which he denied that they benefitted the few at the expense of the many, defended Congress against charges of corruption, rejected as absurd the accusation of monarchism, and warned that criticisms such as those the President had brought to his attention would eventually destroy the American experiment in republicanism by undermining popular confidence in the federal government

In historical hindsight Hamilton was correct about the direction he was taking the young nation. Jefferson and his concerns did not come to fruition... Hamilton create the cornerstone of the economic marvel called "The United States"...

This letter is consider the seed of our two party system...

In May 1792, Jefferson was alarmed at the political rivalries taking shape; he wrote to Washington, urging him to run for re-election that year as a unifying influence.[122] He urged the president to rally the citizenry to a party that would defend democracy against the corrupting influence of banks and monied interests, as espoused by the Federalists. Historians recognize this letter as the earliest delineation of Democratic-Republican Party principles.[123] Jefferson, Madison, and other Democratic-Republican organizers favored states' rights and local control and opposed federal concentration of power, whereas Hamilton sought more power for the federal government

It was slavery the broke the nation and that is not woke anything just the truth...
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
A thought...

We aspire to be a Jefferson Democracy but we live in a Hamiltonian America...
 

nicholls

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
91
Reaction score
56
cherry pick what?
What I find interesting is that this libertarian thinks that most of the racial resentments came from Reconstruction which is ridiculous. There was profound racial prejudice before the Civil War throughout the United States.

"So far all I see as missing is how blacks were used as pawns by early Republicans to plunder the South. Most of the racial resentments came from that."
 

O' Be Joyful

ohio hillbilly
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
3,491
Reaction score
3,136
"So far all I see as missing is how blacks were used as pawns by early Republicans to plunder the South. Most of the racial resentments came from that."

That dude has some serious social and historical "issues" IMHO.

My guess is that he/she-it bleaches his "sheets" every Monday.
 

O' Be Joyful

ohio hillbilly
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
3,491
Reaction score
3,136
Do not get me wrong @nicholls I am a well known smart-ass, and I believe you are asking some interesting questions.
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
What I find interesting is that this libertarian thinks that most of the racial resentments came from Reconstruction which is ridiculous. There was profound racial prejudice before the Civil War throughout the United States.
I think your libertarian friend does not know his history. Nothing of what Jefferson mentions in his letter to Washington implies to the cause of the civil war...


The whiskey tax cause revolts in what they called the west back than... not in the south... I do not know what to answer @nicholls is looking for...
 

O' Be Joyful

ohio hillbilly
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
3,491
Reaction score
3,136
I do not know what to answer @nicholls is looking for...

The only stupid question I have been repeatedly told was the one not asked, my dear old fishy friend. ;)

Questions are the the first steps towards answers.
 

nicholls

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
91
Reaction score
56
The


I have shown over and over this lie about high tariffs by the time of the war and even way before the war.
I have responded with similar arguments that you have made and this is his response:

"That's pretty specious. Tariffs also made it impossible to end slavery, and the North only ginned up their opposition to slavery when the South complained about the tariffs. Slavery was not something that the North actually opposed. Rather, it was their excuse for the tariffs."

He clings to the tariffs is the cause of the Civil War.
 

rittmeister

trekkie in residence
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,185
Reaction score
3,438
I have responded with similar arguments that you have made and this is his response:

"That's pretty specious. Tariffs also made it impossible to end slavery, and the North only ginned up their opposition to slavery when the South complained about the tariffs. Slavery was not something that the North actually opposed. Rather, it was their excuse for the tariffs."

He clings to the tariffs is the cause of the Civil War.
can't be helped then
 

nicholls

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
91
Reaction score
56
can't be helped then
Speaking about the letter from Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, a comment from him about the Whiskey Rebellion:

"all of the things Jefferson talked about were continually complained about by the South right up to the Civil War, and most were enumerated in the Georgia declaration of secession, and Jefferson explicitly said that the division on these issues was between the North and the South. While violence broke out in western Pennsylvania, resistance to the whiskey tax was in all of the agrarian areas, and the South was agrarian. It was supported by the industrial North."

"He clearly displays the same vengeful spirit that wrecked the South. Everyone who disagrees with his vengeful narrative is "revisionist," although you won't find history books before the 1960s that said the war was fought over slavery. The purpose of the woke revisionists is not historical accuracy, but fomenting hatred. One has to be consumed with hate to read Jefferson's letter to Washington and pretend that it had nothing to do with Southern complaints.
"Yet when we review the mass which opposed the original coalescence, when we consider that it lay chiefly in the Southern quarter, that the legislature have availed themselves of no occasion of allaying it, but on the contrary whenever Northern and Southern prejudices have come into conflict, the latter have been sacrificed and the former soothed; that the owers of the debt are in the Southern and the holders of it in the Northern division; that the Antifederal champions are now strengthened in argument by the fulfilment of their predictions; that this has been brought about by the Monarchical federalists themselves, who, having been for the new government merely as a stepping stone to monarchy, have themselves adopted the very constructions of the constitution, of which, when advocating it’s acceptance before the tribunal of the people, they declared it insusceptible.... And this is the event at which I tremble, and to prevent which I consider your continuance at the head of affairs as of the last importance. The confidence of the whole union is centered in you. Your being at the helm, will be more than an answer to every argument which can be used to alarm and lead the people in any quarter into violence or secession. North and South will hang together, if they have you to hang on: and, if the first corrective of a numerous representation should fail in it’s effect, your presence will give time for trying others not inconsistent with the union and peace of the states."
How can anyone be so spectacularly blind as to not see that Jefferson was not talking about an impending split between North and South? Well, woke revisionists are that spectacularly blind, because they will not see."

Just would like an educated analysis of this Thank You.
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
Whiskey Rebellion:
Was strictly a Western Pennsylvanian revolt... Virginia and Carolinas' had issues with it but no revolt... Gin, the western counties of those states...


interesting deal the whiskey tax got the capital moved... read the first two pages...

 
Last edited:

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
Well, see what you can cherry-pick from this:
I want your libertarian to remember these truths about Washington... This quote:

"First in War, First in Peace, and First in the hearts of his countrymen."

I want to remind you all: When the Washington monument was complete it was the tallest building in the world at that time... Washington first again...
 

Joshism

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
488
Reaction score
587
I was arguing with a libertarian and he mentioned Thomas Jefferson's 1792 letter to George Washington in that he predicted secession. I would like people's opinions on this:

"you are citing your own woke revisionist history...
That individual's opinions aren't worthy of anyone's respect. Continuing to converse with them is a waste of your time, oxygen, and brain cells.
 
Top