The American Revolution

5fish

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And that is a self-coup, as proved by the historical fact that the states never consented to such a national union.
Why is there a United States? Why is there a supremacy clause in the Constitution? As I have shown you in other posts, the people ratified the Constitution, even if it was done state by state... I have shown you numerous times that this self coup is a fantasy of your... You are bringing presentism into the past...
 

TomEvans

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Why is there a United States?
The American Revolution established an international union of 13 sovereign nations in 1783.

They did NOT declare a national union in 1776, which was political superior to every state-- as the US government CLAIMS, ever since the Jackson Administration:

jackson.png

... and CONTINUES to claim ever since; while in reality, disunion is the NATIONAL POLICY of the disuniting state, and armed force is NATIONAL DEFENSE.


Why is there a supremacy clause in the Constitution?
Glad you asked.

Because it WAS an international Constitution--- and NOT a national one, where such a clause would not have been NECESSARY.

(Seriously, NOBODY writes that "the courts in every province shall abide by national law" in a national Constitution LOL)

The Supremacy Clause was simply a choice-of-law provision in an international union, to bind state courts to the international agreement; above their respective state laws in legal matters..

Such provisions are quite common in international contracts; and this was an international union.

As I have shown you in other posts, the people ratified the Constitution, even if it was done state by state...
Yes, each state's electorate, was the supreme national authority for their respective state, as a separate sovereign nation.

And their first act as such, was to formally withdraw their state from the international confederation established in 1783; to form a new international union, with other states that were similarly-inclined.

And this directly proves, that the states did NOT form a national union in 1776-- as certain charlatans like Jackson and Lincoln, falsely claimed, while under the influence of toxic metals like lead and mercury (and the US government continues to claim this under the self-coup that Lincoln led).

States of a national union, don't GET to unilaterally secede and form their own NEW unions under new Constitutions, like the American states did in 1787-1790.... and 1860-1861.

And that's why it's most hilarious, how Frankensteineckbeard claimed that they formed a national union in 1776...

...and that this "national union," just one day decided to throw out its entire national charter, and adopt a WHOLE NEW one-- rather than just CHANGING the one they HAD ROTFLMAO


I have shown you numerous times that this self coup is a fantasy of your...
And I've explained each time, how it's just plain historical fact.... and you've been bamboozled and can't admit it.

You are bringing presentism into the past...
No, I'm bringing historical fact into the PRESENT.

In fact, that's 99% of the study of law: i.e. legal history, to understand the original intent of the lawmakers.
 
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5fish

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've explained each time, how it's just plain historical fact.
No, you have not shown any event that can be called a self coup, but I show that Lincoln was willing to give up power...

 

5fish

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In fact, that's 99% of the study of law: i.e. legal history, to understand the original intent of the lawmakers.
You are pushing a dogma even when shown to be faulty...
 

5fish

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international union
Again a false statement,,, your dogma is showing

Here are the first two international union of nations...

League of Nations (1920): The first intergovernmental organization for global peace, established after World War I but dissolved after World War II.

United Nations (UN) (1945): The primary modern international body, formed by 51 original members (China, France, USSR, UK, US, and others) to foster international cooperation and security
 

TomEvans

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You just distort everything to fit your dogma and heck with truth and facts...
You're one claiming that free and independent states, are actually federated districts of a common federal state-- AND doing so by OUTSIDE INFERENCE.
 

5fish

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ou're one claiming that free and independent states,
I am claiming that the colonists in the 13 colonies came together and created the United States, not once, but twice more... The British and the French recognized the United States as an equal among equals... You seem unable to understand from many-to-one... Your dogma ignores the simple facts and truths...
 

TomEvans

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I am claiming that the colonists in the 13 colonies came together and created the United States, not once, but twice more... The British and the French recognized the United States as an equal among equals... You seem unable to understand from many-to-one... Your dogma ignores the simple facts and truths...
Stop projecting. The United States was NEVER recognized as a state.

EVER.

If you don't know what a state is, ask a grown-up.
 

TomEvans

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All of this over tea and silver teapots.
More like government deriving its just power, by the equal and supreme consent of the governed-- and that means INFORMED consent.

Meanwhile the Lincoln-government FALSELY claimed that the states formed a national union in 1776; and it's been claiming that EVER SINCE, as its core legal premise for claiming national union over the states; which is just a front for Crony Capitalism, by usurping supreme power from the state voters to the federal politicians that the rich CONTROL as investments.
 

LJMYERS

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Just think how bad it would be if Prince Andrew was related to King George III.
 

TomEvans

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Just think how bad it would be if Prince Andrew was related to King George III.
No need-- he IS.

Prince Andrew is a direct descendant of King George III, through the British monarchy's lineage; as George III was the great-great-great-grandfather of Queen Victoria, and Andrew is a grandson of Victoria's granddaughter, Queen Elizabeth II, making them distant cousins in the royal family tree.

But things aren't bad because of that-- they're bad because people falsely believe that their government operates by their informed consent-- and that therefore, legal fact aligns with HISTORICAL fact.

But in reality LF =/= HF, thus precluding GIC as the logical contrapositive.

And this false belief, is what Johann Wolfgang von Goethe said was "the most hopeless form of enslavement."

And he was RIGHT; since it's better to know the devil, than trust an angel that you DON'T know.
 
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5fish

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And I've explained each time, how it's just plain historical fact.... and you've been bamboozled and can't admit it.
Your dogma was bamboozling you...

The United States was NEVER recognized as a state.

EVER.
These are the things nation states do... No, the state has never done one...

French ships fired cannons, recognizing it as a United States Flag ship... Captain by John Paul Jones...

Yes, Benjamin Franklin was indeed America's first ambassador to France, arriving in Paris in late 1776

The United States' first treaty was with an Indigenous nation, the Treaty with the Delawares (1778), signed by the Continental Congress

The Treaty of Alliance with France (1778), securing vital military and financial aid, and marking the first recognition of the U.S. by a major power

The Treaty with Morocco (1786) was the first with a Muslim nation, establishing long-lasting ties

Great Britain (UK) being the first nation to receive a U.S. Ambassador (Thomas F. Bayard) in 1893, meaning the second nation would likely be France or another major power receiving an ambassador soon after.
 

TomEvans

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These are the things nation states do... No, the state has never done one...
This is why a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.... come back when you've actually studied law and know what you're talking about (i.e. NEVER).
 

5fish

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This is why a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.... come back when you've actually studied law and know what you're talking about (i.e. NEVER).
Let's add that power corrupts. And not one governor has ever declared their state to be a sovereign country, not one, ever... You would think a power-hungry politician would do that if they thought your way would have done it long before the Civil War, and even then, those governors who seceded only to try to create a new nation... It is evident that states cannot stand alone... every time they join together to form a collective...


No U.S. state governor declared their state a sovereign country after the Revolution; instead, governors like Jonathan Trumbull in Connecticut and William Livingston in New Jersey led their states during the fight for independence, acting as chief executives for new state governments that were forming from British colonies into independent states, not declaring independence from the United States after it was formed. Governors during the Revolutionary era were establishing state governments, managing war efforts, and transitioning from colonial rule to self-governance, as seen with Patrick Henry in Virginia.

Key Examples of Governors During the Transition:

  • Jonathan Trumbull (Connecticut): The last royal governor who supported the Revolution, becoming the first state governor, wielding expanded war powers under the charter.
  • Patrick Henry (Virginia): Elected as Virginia's first governor in 1776, he oversaw the new state's government and efforts to supply the Continental Army.
  • William Livingston (New Jersey): Elected Governor in 1776, he served during the war, defending New Jersey from British threats.
Clarifying the Timeline:
  • Before 1776: Governors were royal or proprietary officials of the British colonies (e.g., Joseph Wanton in Rhode Island, who was removed for disloyalty).
  • 1776-1783: Governors transitioned to leading independent states, like those in the new United States, managing state affairs and the war.
  • After 1783: States were fully established members of the new republic, with governors leading them, as with John Rutledge in South Carolina or George Walton in Georgia.
There were no instances of a governor leading a state to secede from the newly formed United States and declare itself a separate country in that post-Revolutionary period, though some states like West Virginia later split from others, but that was much later and under different circumstances.
 

TomEvans

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Let's add that power corrupts. And not one governor has ever declared their state to be a sovereign country, not one, ever...
There was no need; they ALREADY HAD BEEN declared that in 1776, and officially achieved that status in 1783.
 
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