Slavery a necessary evil or What an Idiot

jgoodguy

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All conquests are aggression, but not all aggression is conquest.
 

Wehrkraftzersetzer

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nope

aggression is the Monroe doctrine, conquest might happen in self defense (never with the USA)
All these attacks on everybody else this was aggression (synonym = imperalism)
 

Wehrkraftzersetzer

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All conquests are aggression, but not all aggression is conquest.
no

If You fight back an aggressor into his homeland by that You liberate several in betweens

one joins you that is conquest but not aggression
 

Matt McKeon

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how? no taxation without representation - if they stayed they stil wouldn't have had representation
They might have representation by then, or at least some tame MPs ready to obstruct anti-slavery laws. The proslavery lobby is stronger with North America in the British Empire, and could delay, weaken or obstruct anti-slavery measures.
 

diane

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There you go! Monroe Doctrine. The whole hemisphere are belong to us! Then, close to a hundred years later you have the Truman Doctrine...which didn't exactly go to plan, either.
 

Wehrkraftzersetzer

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Historical knowledge?
Canada, Louisiana, Canada, Mexico, Canada all these land"buying" after beating the s*it out of it's former "owner"

oc those aggressors often had to munch a big bar of soap (especially with Canada)
 

jgoodguy

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Just as the native nations on this continent before European arrivals: tribal wars, raids, forced removals and slavery.
IMHO there is too much focus on US Southern slavery and associated bashing so that when the big picture emerges, it is uncomfortable. The US was built on taking stuff from others, oppression a lot of folks and the winners paid for a pretty picture to be painted.
 

5fish

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Slavery and our Capitalist system go hand and hand so maybe Slavery was a necessary evil for America... In America we developed what many call "Brutal Capitalism" which was born as Slavery grow in the colonies.

LINK: https://productivityhub.org/2019/11/12/in-order-to-understand-the-brutality-of-american-capitalism-you-have-to-start-on-the-plantation/

When Americans declare that “we live in a capitalist society” — as a real estate mogul told The Miami Herald last year when explaining his feelings about small-business owners being evicted from their Little Haiti storefronts — what they’re often defending is our nation’s peculiarly brutal economy. “Low-road capitalism,” the University of Wisconsin-Madison sociologist Joel Rogers has called it. In a capitalist society that goes low, wages are depressed as businesses compete over the price, not the quality, of goods; so-called unskilled workers are typically incentivized through punishments, not promotions; inequality reigns and poverty spreads. In the United States, the richest 1 percent of Americans own 40 percent of the country’s wealth, while a larger share of working-age people (18–65) live in poverty than in any other nation belonging to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (O.E.C.D.).

Snip...

Those searching for reasons the American economy is uniquely severe and unbridled have found answers in many places (religion, politics, culture). But recently, historians have pointed persuasively to the gnatty fields of Georgia and Alabama, to the cotton houses and slave auction blocks, as the birthplace of America’s low-road approach to capitalism.

Snip...

What made the cotton economy boom in the United States, and not in all the other far-flung parts of the world with climates and soil suitable to the crop, was our nation’s unflinching willingness to use violence on nonwhite people and to exert its will on seemingly endless supplies of land and labor. Given the choice between modernity and barbarism, prosperity and poverty, lawfulness and cruelty, democracy and totalitarianism, America chose all of the above.

Snip... the catch...

Today modern technology has facilitated unremitting workplace supervision, particularly in the service sector. But it’s only the technology that’s new. The core impulse behind that technology pervaded plantations, which sought innermost control over the bodies of their enslaved work force.

Snip... wage slavery...

Slavery did supplement white workers with what W.E.B. Du Bois called a “public and psychological wage,” which allowed them to roam freely and feel a sense of entitlement. But this, too, served the interests of money. Slavery pulled down all workers’ wages. Both in the cities and countryside, employers had access to a large and flexible labor pool made up of enslaved and free people. Just as in today’s gig economy, day laborers during slavery’s reign often lived under conditions of scarcity and uncertainty, and jobs meant to be worked for a few months were worked for lifetimes. This not only created a starkly uneven playing field, dividing workers from themselves; it also made “all nonslavery appear as freedom,” as the economic historian Stanley Engerman has written. Witnessing the horrors of slavery drilled into poor white workers that things could be worse. So they generally accepted their lot, and American freedom became broadly defined as the opposite of bondage.

Snip...

During slavery, “Americans built a culture of speculation unique in its abandon,” writes the historian Joshua Rothman in his 2012 book, “Flush Times and Fever Dreams.” That culture would drive cotton production up to the Civil War, and it has been a defining characteristic of American capitalism ever since. It is the culture of acquiring wealth without work, growing at all costs and abusing the powerless. It is the culture that brought us the Panic of 1837, the stock-market crash of 1929 and the recession of 2008. It is the culture that has produced staggering inequality and undignified working conditions. If today America promotes a particular kind of low-road capitalism — a union-busting capitalism of poverty wages, gig jobs and normalized insecurity; a winner-take-all capitalism of stunning disparities not only permitting but awarding financial rule-bending; a racist capitalism that ignores the fact that slavery didn’t just deny black freedom but built white fortunes, originating the black-white wealth gap that annually grows wider — one reason is that American capitalism was founded on the lowest road there is.

END the END... Our capitalism values are based off our old slavery capitalism... Exploitation...
 

jgoodguy

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Slavery and our Capitalist system go hand and hand so maybe Slavery was a necessary evil for America... In America we developed what many call "Brutal Capitalism" which was born as Slavery grow in the colonies.

LINK: https://productivityhub.org/2019/11/12/in-order-to-understand-the-brutality-of-american-capitalism-you-have-to-start-on-the-plantation/

When Americans declare that “we live in a capitalist society” — as a real estate mogul told The Miami Herald last year when explaining his feelings about small-business owners being evicted from their Little Haiti storefronts — what they’re often defending is our nation’s peculiarly brutal economy. “Low-road capitalism,” the University of Wisconsin-Madison sociologist Joel Rogers has called it. In a capitalist society that goes low, wages are depressed as businesses compete over the price, not the quality, of goods; so-called unskilled workers are typically incentivized through punishments, not promotions; inequality reigns and poverty spreads. In the United States, the richest 1 percent of Americans own 40 percent of the country’s wealth, while a larger share of working-age people (18–65) live in poverty than in any other nation belonging to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (O.E.C.D.).

Snip...

Those searching for reasons the American economy is uniquely severe and unbridled have found answers in many places (religion, politics, culture). But recently, historians have pointed persuasively to the gnatty fields of Georgia and Alabama, to the cotton houses and slave auction blocks, as the birthplace of America’s low-road approach to capitalism.

Snip...

What made the cotton economy boom in the United States, and not in all the other far-flung parts of the world with climates and soil suitable to the crop, was our nation’s unflinching willingness to use violence on nonwhite people and to exert its will on seemingly endless supplies of land and labor. Given the choice between modernity and barbarism, prosperity and poverty, lawfulness and cruelty, democracy and totalitarianism, America chose all of the above.

Snip... the catch...

Today modern technology has facilitated unremitting workplace supervision, particularly in the service sector. But it’s only the technology that’s new. The core impulse behind that technology pervaded plantations, which sought innermost control over the bodies of their enslaved work force.

Snip... wage slavery...

Slavery did supplement white workers with what W.E.B. Du Bois called a “public and psychological wage,” which allowed them to roam freely and feel a sense of entitlement. But this, too, served the interests of money. Slavery pulled down all workers’ wages. Both in the cities and countryside, employers had access to a large and flexible labor pool made up of enslaved and free people. Just as in today’s gig economy, day laborers during slavery’s reign often lived under conditions of scarcity and uncertainty, and jobs meant to be worked for a few months were worked for lifetimes. This not only created a starkly uneven playing field, dividing workers from themselves; it also made “all nonslavery appear as freedom,” as the economic historian Stanley Engerman has written. Witnessing the horrors of slavery drilled into poor white workers that things could be worse. So they generally accepted their lot, and American freedom became broadly defined as the opposite of bondage.

Snip...

During slavery, “Americans built a culture of speculation unique in its abandon,” writes the historian Joshua Rothman in his 2012 book, “Flush Times and Fever Dreams.” That culture would drive cotton production up to the Civil War, and it has been a defining characteristic of American capitalism ever since. It is the culture of acquiring wealth without work, growing at all costs and abusing the powerless. It is the culture that brought us the Panic of 1837, the stock-market crash of 1929 and the recession of 2008. It is the culture that has produced staggering inequality and undignified working conditions. If today America promotes a particular kind of low-road capitalism — a union-busting capitalism of poverty wages, gig jobs and normalized insecurity; a winner-take-all capitalism of stunning disparities not only permitting but awarding financial rule-bending; a racist capitalism that ignores the fact that slavery didn’t just deny black freedom but built white fortunes, originating the black-white wealth gap that annually grows wider — one reason is that American capitalism was founded on the lowest road there is.

END the END... Our capitalism values are based off our old slavery capitalism... Exploitation...
English capitalism started with the fencing in of the commons displacing peasants and filling British cities with starving people just in time for the industrial revolution.
 

O' Be Joyful

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English capitalism started with the fencing in of the commons displacing peasants and filling British cities with starving people just in time for the industrial revolution.

What was "once" Olde is new and renewable again.
 

Joshism

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FTA: "As the Founding Fathers said, it was the necessary evil upon which the union was built..."

Can someone point to examples of the Founding Fathers saying something like this? I know of several, like Jefferson, who described it as a problem they didn't know how to solve.

The 13 colonies all benefited from slave labor to different degrees, but only the South was really built on it. Cotton, sugar, rice, and to a lesser extent tobacco were dependent on enslaved blacks without which they simply would not have been planted in any significant quantity.
 
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