Searching for Black Confederates by Kevin Levin

Andersonh1

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I see some of us have some things to learn about newspapers of the time.
I've spent quite a bit more time actually reading and studying the newspapers than you might think. And often when I or others have looked for corroborating information, it can be found. I'll say this, anyone who thinks anything from the newspapers has to be automatically discarded is incorrect. They're a more valuable resource than that, particularly if one is attempting to study opinion.
 

Al Mackey

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I've spent quite a bit more time actually reading and studying the newspapers than you might think. And often when I or others have looked for corroborating information, it can be found. I'll say this, anyone who thinks anything from the newspapers has to be automatically discarded is incorrect. They're a more valuable resource than that, particularly if one is attempting to study opinion.
No one said they are automatically discarded. I guess more time reading and studying is necessary though.
 

jgoodguy

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That they are a valuable source of information as often as not. Like today's news, sometimes reliable, sometimes full of fake news.
The big problem is what they are evidence of.
 

Al Mackey

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I don't intend to stop at this point. :)
So what conclusions can we draw about the report regarding African Americans in Mobile supposedly enlisting enthusiastically and in great numbers?
 

jgoodguy

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So what conclusions can we draw about the report regarding African Americans in Mobile supposedly enlisting enthusiastically and in great numbers?
I think we can make the case for an original 'Black Confederate' Myth.
 

Kirk's Raider's

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I think we can make the case for an original 'Black Confederate' Myth.
If we actually study real segregated militaries we fund that the greater the level of oppression the less segregated troops can be recruited.
For example the Republic of South Africa with a far greater population then Rhodesia could at best only establish one Infantry Battalion vs Rhodesia could recruit at least 6k men well over a brigade into the Rhodesian Army.
The other South African black Battalion was 32 Battalion composed of ethnic Bonoko (sp?) Angolans.
Point being oppressed people instinctively don't really want to fight for their oppressors.
Kirk's Raider's
 

jgoodguy

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If we actually study real segregated militaries we fund that the greater the level of oppression the less segregated troops can be recruited.
For example the Republic of South Africa with a far greater population then Rhodesia could at best only establish one Infantry Battalion vs Rhodesia could recruit at least 6k men well over a brigade into the Rhodesian Army.
The other South African black Battalion was 32 Battalion composed of ethnic Bonoko (sp?) Angolans.
Point being oppressed people instinctively don't really want to fight for their oppressors.
Kirk's Raider's
I agree with the observation that the additional impediment the CSA had was that slaves/blacks as soldiers was anathema to their slave labor ideology.
 

jgoodguy

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He doesn't give a page number.
Sad that without the text of Levine's assertion or the page number where it is, we cannot verify that evidence.
 
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Andersonh1

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So what conclusions can we draw about the report regarding African Americans in Mobile supposedly enlisting enthusiastically and in great numbers?
Is there a specific reason to doubt this particular article?

I think we can safely accept the account of what happened, though we can't really know what motivated these men. We know Mobile authorized a local Creole defense force in late 1862, confined to the city and county of Mobile, and we know this force was formed because they were turned down for Confederate service in 1863. So there was a non-white military presence in Mobile for several years, which could be a factor in black men ready to join up. However without any real information as to why they responded as they did, we can only speculate.
 

Al Mackey

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Is there a specific reason to doubt this particular article?

I think we can safely accept the account of what happened, though we can't really know what motivated these men. We know Mobile authorized a local Creole defense force in late 1862, confined to the city and county of Mobile, and we know this force was formed because they were turned down for Confederate service in 1863. So there was a non-white military presence in Mobile for several years, which could be a factor in black men ready to join up. However without any real information as to why they responded as they did, we can only speculate.
Yes, there is good reason to doubt it, but I'm trying to see if you will do even the most rudimentary analysis of it.
 

Tom

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Do we have any primary docs on this?
The "40 or 50" is from a Union-controlled Richmond newspaper published after the city was captured.
I have no idea where he gets the "6" number.
 
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