Searching for Black Confederates by Kevin Levin

Viper21

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I am in complete agreement... No matter how many times you show the advocates there were no Black Confederates, just ignore you truths.

I ask the advocates if there were black confederates why does it matter. What does it change about why the war was fought? Why is there this need to prove there were black confederates, even thou the evidence proves there were none...

I hope one of the advocates can enlighten us on their reasoning and desire to prove the black confederate myth...

Darn they roped me in again... :( lol
HAHAHAHAHA...

The answer is in your own post.

The reason, & desire to prove the existence of Black Confederates, is because of the statements I bolded. Yes. It's that simple.
 

Tom

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Links were provided for sources. You made the USCT's 'blackness' part of the debate.
I don't see where your links support this statement- "Only 4% of the USCT was mixed race."
 

Tom

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I submitted a request that my local library purchase Levin's book, which was approved. I'm going to read it and review as usual. It will probably be the last thing I read on the subject as I am mightily sick and tired of it, and it's advocates.
We're not going to quit. There's too much yet to be found.
 

Andersonh1

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No matter how many times you show the advocates there were no Black Confederates
None? Not even one?

With all the evidence that I and others have found over the past few years and posted here and over at CWT, this is an astonishing statement to make. It shows a complete disregard for what is right before your eyes. If you had said they were few in number, we'd have no problem here, but to claim that there were none is simply false.

I ask the advocates if there were black confederates why does it matter. What does it change about why the war was fought? Why is there this need to prove there were black confederates, even thou the evidence proves there were none...
Facts are facts. There does not have to be an grand significance to make a historical subject interesting or worthwhile to study. If nothing else, it's a mystery to dig into and solve: who were these men, how many were there and what motivated them? That alone makes the question worth pursuing. Some questions about the Civil War are easy to answer, others require a lot of digging, and sometimes it's the digging to answer a question that is the most interesting thing to do.

I hope one of the advocates can enlighten us on their reasoning and desire to prove the black confederate myth...
We can't, because you're not open to accepting the evidence. Hopefully others are.
 

Tom

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"Only in Richmond is there solid evidence of any units of black Confederate soldiers ever forming. Those units were recruited from two sources. One was the staff of two local hospitals--Winder and Jackson. In mid-February, surgeon F. w. Hancock of Jackson Hospital assembled seventy-two slaves employed there as orderlies or nurses and asked if they were willing to take up arms in defense of Richmond. According to Dr. Hancock, sixty said they were. Confederate officials anxious to raise public confidence and to encourage emulation promptly passed this account along to the press. At least some of these black hospital workers were then mustered into a company or two attached to Major H. C. Scott's three-battalion-strong local defense corps, most of whose members were convalescing hospital patients. Although not incorporated into the regular Confederate army, at least some of these soldiers were ordered into the trenches to bolster Richmond's defense against a Union raid in mid-March." [Bruce Levine, Confederate Emancipation: Southern Plans to Free and Arm Slaves During the Civil War, p. 125]

"A second source of black Confederate soldiers was the formal recruiting center that General Ewell had created and Majors Pegram and Turner directed." [Ibid.]

"In the event, however, only a tiny fraction of those numbers was ever recruited in Virginia. Thomas P. Turner would have been happy to meet a far more modest goal. He hoped to bring his unit up to a strength of eighty to one hundred by mid-April. By late March, he was still struggling to reach even that goal, having apparently received somewhere between thirty and forty recruits. And a full month later, the Richmond Whig was still referring to 'the forty or fifty colored soldiers, enlisted under the act of congress. Not 4,700 but just half a dozen free black males enlisted in Pegram and Turner's unit." [Ibid., p. 126]

So it looks like about 66 to 100 black confederate soldiers in Richmond. Let's be generous and assume we've missed some and add 25, making it 125 at most.

As to Mobile, looks like they would not count.

"The subject came up again in late 1863. This time it was Maj. Gen. Dabney H. Maury, of the Confederate Department of the Gulf, who proposed enlisting a unit of Mobile 'creoles.' It was true, Maury acknowledged, that these men 'have, many of them, negro blood in the degree which disqualifies other persons of negro race [sic] from the rights of citizens.' But because of the peculiarities of local history, he explained, 'they do not stand here on the footing of negroes.' Under the terms by which the United States originally acquired this part of the continent, such creoles had been 'guaranteed all the immunities and privileges of the citizens of the United States, and have continued to enjoy them up to this time.' Mobile's congressman endorsed Maury's initiative. Yet Secretary of War James A. Seddon remained adamant. If Mobile's creoles could be 'naturally and properly' distinguished from blacks, them they could be allowed to don the gray. If, however, they could not be thus 'disconnected from negroes,' General Maury could employ them only as military laborers ('as 'navies,' to use the English term') or for some other types of 'subordinate working purposes.' " [Ibid., p. 19]

If they were employed as soldiers it was because they were not considered "black." If they were considered "black," then they were not employed as soldiers.
Jackleg: "So it looks like about 66 to 100 black confederate soldiers in Richmond....125 at most."

The two hospital companies alone beat that number-

Winder


"A company of colored troops, raised by Captain [Major] J. R. Chambliss, at Camp Winder, will parade on the Square, at 4 1/2 o'clock this afternoon. The company numbers 65 men, rank and file, and have been armed, but have not yet received their uniforms."
-Richmond Enquirer, March 22, 1865

Jackson

Major H. C. Scott reported his companies would average 80 to 85 men (Jackson Hospital had one company of black troops). This is found in Chapter VI, Volume 378 of Confederate Records (Medical Department) in the National Archives.

meddept1.jpg

Jackleg: "As to Mobile, looks like they would not count." [Source:] "The subject came up again in late 1863...."

The Mobile company (or companies) were organized in March 1865.

Jackleg: "If they were employed as soldiers it was because they were not considered 'black.' If they were considered 'black,' then they were not employed as soldiers."


This report was dated Mobile, Ala., March 29, 1865.
It appeared in the April 11 edition of the Augusta Chronicle.

"the Creoles and negroes, are organized, and will be ready to fall into the ditches around the city the moment their services are wanted."

reportMobile.png
 
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Tom

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What does it change about why the war was fought? Why is there this need to prove there were black confederates
Wars are typically about tangible items- land, resources, wealth, etc -rarely about the intangible. The number of BCs has no effect.

"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts."
 

Andersonh1

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This report was dated Mobile, Ala., March 29, 1865.
It appeared in the April 11 edition of the Augusta Chronicle.

"the Creoles and negroes, are organized, and will be ready to fall into the ditches around the city the moment their services are wanted."

View attachment 382
"Mobile papers of the latest dates state that the negroes are enlisting in large numbers and with great enthusiasm in that city."

The tri-weekly herald. [volume] (Newberry, S.C.) 1865-1865, April 11, 1865
 

5fish

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Here I found these Creoles that fought in the Confederate army.... confirmed these names on the 8th LA. Infantry...

Here is a family Creole Family History serving in the Confederate army... are these men Black Confederates...

https://jesseben.wordpress.com/2010/05/28/andrus-of-civil-war-south/

After the Civil War, Creoles of Color registered as black, as mandated by the new Black Codes of Louisiana. They fought for black Civil Rights, which led to their demise.

Louisiana Confederate Creole Units

Creole Rebels 28thThomas 29th Infantry
Assumption Creoles
, Company C. 26th. La. Volunteers.
Creole Rebels, LA. Militia C, Johnson’s Spl. Battalian.
Creole Chargers, Company G 1st. Louisiana Calvary
Creole Guards, Company A 8th. Louisiana. Infantry
Creole Rebels, La. Mil. Vols. Captain E. P. Doremus Ind.
De Soto Creoles, Company K. 19th. Regiment. LA. Infantry.
Young Creole Native Guards, Company N 1st. Regt. National
Guards. LA Militia

Sergeant Clinton B. Andrus 20 (C.B.)(Prisoner Of War) Company F 8th Army

Adolphe T. Andrus…Private, Company F., 8th Louisiana Infantry. Enlisted Opelousas, Louisiana, March 27, 1862. Roll to April 30th, 1862 “Absent”. Sent to General Hospital, Chimbarazo, Richmond Virginia, April 20th, 1862. “Died at hospital, Richmond Virginia, May 9, 1862”. Born LA. Occupation school master. Residence Grand Coteau, LA, age 28, single. The age of 28 makes it Adolphe T. Andrus, son of Theophile Andrus.

Andrus. Benjamin T., Pvt. Co. F. 8th La. Infty. En.
March 27th, 1862, Opelousas, La. Present on All
Rolls to Dec., 1863. Federal Rolls of Prisoners of
War Captured Strasburg, Oct. 19th, 1864. Sent to
Harper’s Ferry, Oct. 26th, 1864. Forwd. to Pt. Look-
out. Md., Oct. , 1864. Paroled and Transfd. for Exchange to James River, Feb. 14th to 16th, 1866.
Born, La. Occupation, Oversecr. Res., Grand Coteau,
La. Age when Enlisted, 26. Married. Son of Theophile.
Grandfather of Layton Andrus Sr.
 

5fish

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Here Look up Creole Chargers, Company G 1st. Louisiana Calvary, I found a roster and on that roster it had complexation of the soldier and one said Dark...
My logic is a unit would not call themselves Creoles unless the majority of the men came form Creole Families...

Roster: http://www.ranger95.com/civil_war/louisiana/cavalry/1cav_rgt/1st_cav_rgt_rost_g.html

Bachemin, Adolphe, Pvt. Co. G. 1st La. Cavalry. En. Mobile, Ala., June 7th, 1863. Federal Rolls of Prisoners of War Captured Big Hill. Ky., July 30th, 1863. Forwd. to Military Prison, Louisville, Ky., Aug. 3rd, 1863. Sent to Camp Chase, Ohio, Aug. 6th, 1863. Recd. at Fort Delaware, Del., March 4th, 1864. Paroled and Forwd. to City Pt., Va., March 7th, 1865, for Exchange. Released on Oath of Allegiance to U. S. May 10th, 1865. Res., New Orleans, La. Complexion, Dark, Hair, Dark. Eyes, Black. Height, 5 ft. 5 in.

Is Bachemin this man a Black Confederate...
 

jgoodguy

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We're not going to quit. There's too much yet to be found.
I am looking forward to that. New stuff that is and not recycled stuff.
 

jgoodguy

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Here Look up Creole Chargers, Company G 1st. Louisiana Calvary, I found a roster and on that roster it had complexation of the soldier and one said Dark...
My logic is a unit would not call themselves Creoles unless the majority of the men came form Creole Families...

Roster: http://www.ranger95.com/civil_war/louisiana/cavalry/1cav_rgt/1st_cav_rgt_rost_g.html

Bachemin, Adolphe, Pvt. Co. G. 1st La. Cavalry. En. Mobile, Ala., June 7th, 1863. Federal Rolls of Prisoners of War Captured Big Hill. Ky., July 30th, 1863. Forwd. to Military Prison, Louisville, Ky., Aug. 3rd, 1863. Sent to Camp Chase, Ohio, Aug. 6th, 1863. Recd. at Fort Delaware, Del., March 4th, 1864. Paroled and Forwd. to City Pt., Va., March 7th, 1865, for Exchange. Released on Oath of Allegiance to U. S. May 10th, 1865. Res., New Orleans, La. Complexion, Dark, Hair, Dark. Eyes, Black. Height, 5 ft. 5 in.

Is Bachemin this man a Black Confederate...
'Dark' is not black. We are looking for 'Black' Confederates, not 'Dark' Confederates.
 

jgoodguy

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"Mobile papers of the latest dates state that the negroes are enlisting in large numbers and with great enthusiasm in that city."

The tri-weekly herald. [volume] (Newberry, S.C.) 1865-1865, April 11, 1865
It looks like evidence of a 'Myth' to me. Good find.
 

Andersonh1

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It looks like evidence of a 'Myth' to me. Good find.
How so? Do you have evidence that the story is false? It is dated after the March 1865 law, meaning it was legal to enlist black men into the Confederate army, so that objection does not apply here. Why qualify it as a myth?
 

jgoodguy

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How so? Do you have evidence that the story is false? It is dated after the March 1865 law, meaning it was legal to enlist black men into the Confederate army, so that objection does not apply here. Why qualify it as a myth?
It is a good story just like a myth and like a myth there is no evidence it ever happened. Just the story.

The Confederates expected 10s of thousands of blacks to flock to CSA recruiting centers. They got maybe 100. That was the original 'Black Confederate' myth.
 

Tom

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It is a good story just like a myth and like a myth there is no evidence it ever happened. Just the story.
General Maury had issued an order for "all Creoles and other free persons of color" to organize Local Defense companies. This order was in the Mobile newspapers.
 

rittmeister

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General Maury had issued an order for "all Creoles and other free persons of color" to organize Local Defense companies. This order was in the Mobile newspapers.
fake news? i hate to say that about my profession but we are lot more acurate than we were then
 

Tom

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General Maury had issued an order for "all Creoles and other free persons of color" to organize Local Defense companies. This order was in the Mobile newspapers.
"On March 24, 1865, 'All Creoles and other free persons of color between the ages of 16 and 50' received an order by D. H. Maury, the Confederate commander at Mobile, 'to report at once at these headquarters to be organized into companies for local defense.' "
-Weary of War: Life on the Confederate Homefront by Joe A Mobley, p.78
 

Tom

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It is a good story just like a myth and like a myth there is no evidence it ever happened. Just the story.
'All Creoles and other free persons of color between the ages of 16 and 50'

How many would that be? You have the census for Mobile County, Ala.
 
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