Searching for Black Confederates by Kevin Levin

[jgoodguy]

See what John B. Jones, a clerk in the confederate war department, had to say about black confederates.

I love it when you quote sources.

 

[Al Mackey]

I love it when you quote sources.

I thought you loved looking them up even better, which is why I just gave you his name instead of the quote.

 

[jgoodguy]

I thought you loved looking them up even better, which is why I just gave you his name instead of the quote.

Oh him. He was always complaining about being worn out supplying the Black Confederate Battalions w rifles and cartridges I seem to recall.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Hmmm speaking of omissions.
From Fremantle's book. At the bottom of page 282 we find Fremantle suggesting that there were no negro soldiers.

Why oh why was this left out in the complaint against Levin.
Three months in the southern states: April-June, 1863

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Fremantle'' observations just don't make sense. Lord Dunsmore already proved as early as 1775 that black troops were quite effective against the Colonial Rebels.
Black soldiers decade's before the ACW proved themselves against French Regulars in Hatti.
How would Fremantle know if black men would be loyal to the Confederacy? Already by the summer of 1863 there were a number of Confederate defectors that joined the Union Army. Why would black men be more loyal then white men?
Kirk's Raider's

 

[jgoodguy]

Fremantle'' observations just don't make sense. Lord Dunsmore already proved as early as 1775 that black troops were quite effective against the Colonial Rebels.
Black soldiers decade's before the ACW proved themselves against French Regulars in Hatti.
How would Fremantle know if black men would be loyal to the Confederacy? Already by the summer of 1863 there were a number of Confederate defectors that joined the Union Army. Why would black men be more loyal then white men?
Kirk's Raider's

All good questions with no answer I know of.

 

[Al Mackey]

Oh him. He was always complaining about being worn out supplying the Black Confederate Battalions w rifles and cartridges I seem to recall.

Sometimes it's helpful to have something signifying satire. Just sayin'.

 

[Joshism]

Fremantle'' observations just don't make sense. Lord Dunsmore already proved as early as 1775 that black troops were quite effective against the Colonial Rebels.
Black soldiers decade's before the ACW proved themselves against French Regulars in Hatti.
How would Fremantle know if black men would be loyal to the Confederacy? Already by the summer of 1863 there were a number of Confederate defectors that joined the Union Army. Why would black men be more loyal then white men?

It's almost like Fremantle was a racist who saw a very limited view of the Confederacy...

 

[jgoodguy]

It's almost like Fremantle was a racist who saw a very limited view of the Confederacy...

IMHO he would have been offered a limited view by his hosts.

 

[Al Mackey]

For those who don't like to look up references, this is from John B. Jones's diary entry for March 22, 1863 [A Rebel Clerk's War Diary]:

[begin quote]
It was thawing all night, and there is a heavy fog this morning. The snow will disappear in a few days.

A very large number of slaves, said to be nearly 40,000, have been collected by the enemy on the Peninsula and at adjacent points, for the purpose, it is supposed, of co-operating with Hooker’s army in the next attempt to capture Richmond.

The snow has laid an embargo on the usual slight supplies brought to market, and all who had made no provision for such a contingency are subsisting on very short-commons. Corn-meal is selling at from $6 to $8 per bushel. Chickens $5 each. Turkeys $20. Turnip greens $8 per bushel. Bad bacon $1.50 per pound. Bread 20 cts. per loaf. Flour $38 per barrel,–and other things in proportion. There are some pale faces seen in the streets from deficiency of food; but no beggars, no complaints. We are all in rags, especially our underclothes. This for liberty!

The Northern journals say we have negro regiments on the Rappahannock and in the West. This is utterly untrue. We have no armed slaves to fight for us, nor do we fear a servile insurrection. We are at no loss, however, to interpret the meaning of such demoniac misrepresentations. It is to be seen of what value the negro regiments employed against us will be to the invader.
[end quote]

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

It's almost like Fremantle was a racist who saw a very limited view of the Confederacy...

By today's standards indeed he is. Nonetheless I have a copy of his book and definitely recommend it even though its no historically accurate in all details it's a fun read.
Kirk's Raider's

 

[jgoodguy]

The Northern journals say we have negro regiments on the Rappahannock and in the West. This is utterly untrue. We have no armed slaves to fight for us, nor do we fear a servile insurrection. We are at no loss, however, to interpret the meaning of such demoniac misrepresentations. It is to be seen of what value the negro regiments employed against us will be to the invader.

Interesting observation about all those Northern press accounts of 'Black Confederates'.

 

[Joshism]

We are at no loss, however, to interpret the meaning of such demonic misrepresentations.

It's unfortunate that Jones doesn't record said interpretations. It would be interesting to know what a Southern thought was the reason for those Northern newspaper claims. That it revealed Southern desperation or hypocrisy? That the Yankees were idiots and liars?

Interesting too that Jones mentions claims of "negro regiments" then denies any "armed slaves". It's almost as if he considers "negro" and "slave" to be synonymous, and gives no thought to the existence of free blacks. I wonder how common that mentality was?

 

[5fish]

Interesting observation about all those Northern press accounts of 'Black Confederates'.

Could they be Copperhead papers trying instill fear in the Northern whites about armed slaves... Running amuck

 

[jgoodguy]

It's unfortunate that Jones doesn't record said interpretations. It would be interesting to know what a Southern thought was the reason for those Northern newspaper claims. That it revealed Southern desperation or hypocrisy? That the Yankees were idiots and liars?

Interesting too that Jones mentions claims of "negro regiments" then denies any "armed slaves". It's almost as if he considers "negro" and "slave" to be synonymous, and gives no thought to the existence of free blacks. I wonder how common that mentality was?

I think common take a look at
What did the CSA consider as Black in enlisting Black Confederates

 

[Andersonh1]

It's unfortunate that Jones doesn't record said interpretations. It would be interesting to know what a Southern thought was the reason for those Northern newspaper claims. That it revealed Southern desperation or hypocrisy? That the Yankees were idiots and liars?

Occasionally the southern papers would mock such accounts. Far more often they would simply reprint them without comment, interestingly.

 

[Canteen]

Occasionally the southern papers would mock such accounts. Far more often they would simply reprint them without comment, interestingly.

I'm not understanding all this relying on newspaper articles/opinions/comments on so-called "Black Confederates"? Was it not Confederate Government's position to make the final decision, not newspapers?

Kevin Dally

 

[jgoodguy]

I'm not understanding all this relying on newspaper articles/opinions/comments on so-called "Black Confederates"? Was it not Confederate Government's position to make the final decision, not newspapers?

Kevin Dally

Someone has to report on the CSA government's actions and that is the newspapers.
Most of what we know about the only generally accepted 'Black Confederates' comes from the March 1865 Richmond newspapers. Like all primary evidence, the sifting of fact from fiction is the job of the historian.

 

[Canteen]

Someone has to report on the CSA government's actions and that is the newspapers.
Most of what we know about the only generally accepted 'Black Confederates' comes from the March 1865 Richmond newspapers. Like all primary evidence, the sifting of fact from fiction is the job of the historian.

Might want to make that fact known to some posters here on this BB!

Kevin Dally

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Like all primary evidence, the sifting of fact from fiction is the job of the historian.

Which some consider was only done, pre 1960's. Before those danged Liberals took...

 

[jgoodguy]

Which some consider was only done, pre 1960's. Before those danged Liberals took...

Before the invasion of the Revisionists popularized in this movie.