Robert E. Lee and Me: A Southerner's Reckoning with the Myth of the Lost Cause

Joshism

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Robert E. Lee and Me: A Southerner's Reckoning with the Myth of the Lost Cause
by Ty Seidule, US Army Brigadier General (retired) and former head of the history department at West Point
St. Martin's Press (2021)

Anyone read this, or planning to?

It seems to be selling well for a ACW-related book. The usual suspects are decrying it as revisionist history, cancel culture, etc. but nevertheless it currently has a 4.3 out of 5 on Amazon.

I wonder though whether it actually has anything interesting for Civil War buffs, or if we're not really in the target audience because it's covering issues and arguments we've already heard and debated ad naseum.
 

jgoodguy

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Robert E. Lee and Me: A Southerner's Reckoning with the Myth of the Lost Cause
by Ty Seidule, US Army Brigadier General (retired) and former head of the history department at West Point
St. Martin's Press (2021)

Anyone read this, or planning to?

It seems to be selling well for a ACW-related book. The usual suspects are decrying it as revisionist history, cancel culture, etc. but nevertheless it currently has a 4.3 out of 5 on Amazon.

I wonder though whether it actually has anything interesting for Civil War buffs, or if we're not really in the target audience because it's covering issues and arguments we've already heard and debated ad naseum.
IMHO there is a market as deprogramming continues through the Civil War buff population, but there are a ways to go.
 

Joshism

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IMHO there is a market as deprogramming continues through the Civil War buff population
What about those who aren't Lost Causers?

If one has read extensively on the war and its causes yet is still a Lost Causer I strongly suspect they are in too deep. It's those who literally don't know better who seem the most promising to reach.
 

jgoodguy

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What about those who aren't Lost Causers?

If one has read extensively on the war and its causes yet is still a Lost Causer I strongly suspect they are in too deep. It's those who literally don't know better who seem the most promising to reach.
Or too old to change. It is hard to dismiss the teaching of youth.
 

diane

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It's the kind of book that I'd like to see written about N B Forrest. He is second only to Lee in Lost Cause doctrine, and his place in history needs to be examined in clearer light than it has been recently. The many peculiarly biased books about him in recent years shows a high defensive feeling about the entire view of the CW, its causes and its legacy.
 

Tom

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"Robert E. Lee and Me is a non-history book that is so irrelevant as a history text it doesn’t even have an index.

It was written by a virtue-signaling narcissist whose obvious goal is to make sure academia knows that he is woke and correct on all the leftist political issues of today that resonate in academia. They are the focus of way too many history departments that have hired social justice warriors instead of historians.

The book is extremely propagandistic. It is peppered with leftist talking points, references to white supremacy, fights over Confederate monuments, the Emanuel AME Church murders in Charleston, Charlottesville, George Floyd’s death, and other current issues that Seidule uses to tar Robert E. Lee and Southern history."
Robert E. Lee and Me – Abbeville Institute
 

Matt McKeon

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It's the kind of book that I'd like to see written about N B Forrest. He is second only to Lee in Lost Cause doctrine, and his place in history needs to be examined in clearer light than it has been recently. The many peculiarly biased books about him in recent years shows a high defensive feeling about the entire view of the CW, its causes and its legacy.
Seibel's is not a history book per se its more a memoir and a reflection. Do people have a similar feeling about NBF's role in their upbringing? The sense I get, and I'm willing to be corrected, is that NBF's visibility is recent, while Lee's central role began while he was still in command of the ANV.
 

diane

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Thanks, Matt - yes, the book is exactly that, which is why I suggested the same thing for Forrest.

No, Forrest's visibility is not recent but an integral part of the fabric of Confederate lore. (Not history - lore.) He established a formidable military reputation during the war - civilians in areas hard hit by the enemy would look to Forrest to save them or help them. He was THE hero during the war in the western theater. After the war, his influence was equal to Robert E Lee's. And, after the death of both men, they achieved apotheosis more than any other Confederate leaders.

This continued down the generations to a perfect mythology which was embodied by the amazing monument to Forrest in Memphis - which is no more - and which became the perfect symbol of the Lost Cause and the South Shall Rise Again defiance, the uniformed lieutenant general mounted on his war horse. Very much like Lee lying in state in uniform at the chapel of Washington and Lee University, forever ready to fight again with his hand on his sword.

Once a Mississippian told me about Forrest's place in that state - to white kids he was a hero, particularly poor ones, the tales of Forrest were exciting - he was like Robin Hood or Zorro! This man is woven into the very fabric of the region he lived in and defended during the war. Just like in Virginia for Lee, in Tennessee and Mississippi one can't turn around without bumping into Forrest in some fashion.
 

Matt McKeon

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Thanks, Matt - yes, the book is exactly that, which is why I suggested the same thing for Forrest.

No, Forrest's visibility is not recent but an integral part of the fabric of Confederate lore. (Not history - lore.) He established a formidable military reputation during the war - civilians in areas hard hit by the enemy would look to Forrest to save them or help them. He was THE hero during the war in the western theater. After the war, his influence was equal to Robert E Lee's. And, after the death of both men, they achieved apotheosis more than any other Confederate leaders.

This continued down the generations to a perfect mythology which was embodied by the amazing monument to Forrest in Memphis - which is no more - and which became the perfect symbol of the Lost Cause and the South Shall Rise Again defiance, the uniformed lieutenant general mounted on his war horse. Very much like Lee lying in state in uniform at the chapel of Washington and Lee University, forever ready to fight again with his hand on his sword.

Once a Mississippian told me about Forrest's place in that state - to white kids he was a hero, particularly poor ones, the tales of Forrest were exciting - he was like Robin Hood or Zorro! This man is woven into the very fabric of the region he lived in and defended during the war. Just like in Virginia for Lee, in Tennessee and Mississippi one can't turn around without bumping into Forrest in some fashion.
Lee seems to dodge the slavery/racist tag more than Forrest. Forrest was a slave dealer, the Ft. Pillow massacre and then the Klan. Was he respected despite that, or did it add to his legend.
 

diane

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Lee seems to dodge the slavery/racist tag more than Forrest. Forrest was a slave dealer, the Ft. Pillow massacre and then the Klan. Was he respected despite that, or did it add to his legend.
Forrest being a slave trader made it impossible to duck the race tag - can't at all polish that up - the klan was a terrific mistake and Ft Pillow was a catastrophe. None of this is in Lee's legacy - the two generals are sort of a ying and yang of the Confederacy. There was also the fact that when Lee surrendered, he was done. With a capital D. Forrest surrendered but was still full of fight - Parson Brownlow didn't help matters in Tennessee, either.
 

Leftyhunter

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Thanks, Matt - yes, the book is exactly that, which is why I suggested the same thing for Forrest.


No, Forrest's visibility is not recent but an integral part of the fabric of Confederate lore. (Not history - lore.) He established a formidable military reputation during the war - civilians in areas hard hit by the enemy would look to Forrest to save them or help them. He was THE hero during the war in the western theater. After the war, his influence was equal to Robert E Lee's. And, after the death of both men, they achieved apotheosis more than any other Confederate leaders.

This continued down the generations to a perfect mythology which was embodied by the amazing monument to Forrest in Memphis - which is no more - and which became the perfect symbol of the Lost Cause and the South Shall Rise Again defiance, the uniformed lieutenant general mounted on his war horse. Very much like Lee lying in state in uniform at the chapel of Washington and Lee University, forever ready to fight again with his hand on his sword.

Once a Mississippian told me about Forrest's place in that state - to white kids he was a hero, particularly poor ones, the tales of Forrest were exciting - he was like Robin Hood or Zorro! This man is woven into the very fabric of the region he lived in and defended during the war. Just like in Virginia for Lee, in Tennessee and Mississippi one can't turn around without bumping into Forrest in some fashion.
How was Forrest viewed by the African American community of Mississippi if he was thought not at all?
Leftyhunter
 

diane

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How was Forrest viewed by the African American community of Mississippi if he was thought not at all?
Leftyhunter
I don't believe the African American community of Mississippi subscribed to the Lost Cause, do you?
 

Leftyhunter

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"Robert E. Lee and Me is a non-history book that is so irrelevant as a history text it doesn’t even have an index.

It was written by a virtue-signaling narcissist whose obvious goal is to make sure academia knows that he is woke and correct on all the leftist political issues of today that resonate in academia. They are the focus of way too many history departments that have hired social justice warriors instead of historians.

The book is extremely propagandistic. It is peppered with leftist talking points, references to white supremacy, fights over Confederate monuments, the Emanuel AME Church murders in Charleston, Charlottesville, George Floyd’s death, and other current issues that Seidule uses to tar Robert E. Lee and Southern history."
Robert E. Lee and Me – Abbeville Institute
How should we view Robert E.Lee?
What did Lee due to advance racial equality post ACW? At least Longstreet led AAs against white paramilitary terrorists in New Orleans at the battle of Liberty Palace. Forrest made his Maypole Speech which mentioned racial equality and former General Beaugrad came out in favor of equal rights.
Leftyhunter
 

Leftyhunter

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I don't believe the African American community of Mississippi subscribed to the Lost Cause, do you?
Of course not but do you know if any community leaders commented on Forrest especially the Maypole Speech ?
Leftyhunter
 

diane

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I think you mean Independent Order of Pole Bearers? Yes - G W Lewis and the president of the order, Hezekiah Henley. Both gave speeches similar in sentiment to Forrest's - Gideon Pillow's was so tone-deaf as to make one wince - and the crowd gave long applause.

The Pole Bearers were an interesting order, having secret rituals and meetings, and were concerned about improving the economic situation for freedmen, gaining equal rights, and particularly funerals. It wasn't cheap to be buried decently even then and life insurance wasn't sold to black men. And, some sources indicate certain branches were similar to white secret organizations such as the kkk. Henley and Forrest had met after severe race riots in Memphis and had agreed things have to be better. Forrest was sincere in the sentiments he expressed in that speech. To get it in context, it's good to read the speeches before and after it was given.

 

jgoodguy

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Lee seems to dodge the slavery/racist tag more than Forrest. Forrest was a slave dealer, the Ft. Pillow massacre and then the Klan. Was he respected despite that, or did it add to his legend.
Lee died in 1870 which means a lot of history passed him by. Although lots of folks spoke for him.
 

jgoodguy

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"Robert E. Lee and Me is a non-history book that is so irrelevant as a history text it doesn’t even have an index.

It was written by a virtue-signaling narcissist whose obvious goal is to make sure academia knows that he is woke and correct on all the leftist political issues of today that resonate in academia. They are the focus of way too many history departments that have hired social justice warriors instead of historians.

The book is extremely propagandistic. It is peppered with leftist talking points, references to white supremacy, fights over Confederate monuments, the Emanuel AME Church murders in Charleston, Charlottesville, George Floyd’s death, and other current issues that Seidule uses to tar Robert E. Lee and Southern history."
Robert E. Lee and Me – Abbeville Institute
So what is wrong with that other than secret code words and handshakes with obtuse posts.
 

Joshism

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What did Lee due to advance racial equality post ACW?
He basically went straight from the war to a job at a private university and died 5 1/2 years after his surrender. As I recall, he only ever left Lexington during that time for health reasons.

Why would he have an obligation to advance racial equality after the war?
 
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