Prussian Heros von Borcke

[5fish]

Does this name sound familiar? I bet it does. He rode with JEB Stuart and was part of his staff. I have read many books on the Civil War but I do not ever remember his books being cited in any of them. He was a foreigner so one should figure his observation would be more neutral than most others.





link... https://archive.org/details/memconfederate01borcrich

Another book by him... and Justus Scheibert



Has anyone read any of these books... and why are they not cited by civil war writers.

 

[Matt McKeon]

Imagine being named "Heroes" No pressure! Excellent mustache in an era of great facial hair. I don't know anything about him, except when he's mentioned in works devoted to others.

 

[rittmeister]

Imagine being named "Heroes" No pressure! Excellent mustache in an era of great facial hair. I don't know anything about him, except when he's mentioned in works devoted to others.

no e please. it's just romanticsism towards anything ancient (greek in this case) - the german word for hero would he held - had his parents named him like that i'd call it strange but it would have been illegal anyway. heros would in theory have been illegal, too but it probaly had been mistaken for a greek name. it isn't - it means demi-god.

... yes the english word hero stemms from it but in german it's a lot less obvious

 

[rittmeister]

he presented this gun to jeb stuart - dedication reads:

lt.gen j.e.b. stuart c.s.a. culpepper, va june 1863​

from heros von borcke​

it's a tranter revolver on display in the smithonian now

 

[5fish]

but it would have been illegal anyway. heros would in theory have been illegal,

What do mean illegal? Can parents not name their child any name they please in Germany?

 

[rittmeister]

What do mean illegal? Can parents not name their child any name they please in Germany?

of course not in the 19th century the name needed to come from a saint (unless you were a jew, that is - naming a jew after a saint might be an insult to the saint in question) or something else considered good (that is where ancient non-christian names come in). nowadays you got more possibilities but you won't be allowed to chose a name that could torment the child later like batman müller.

edit to ad: of course ancient germanic names were okay too like friederike (f) or ottokar (m)

 

[5fish]

of course not View attachment 6436 in the 19 th century the name needed to come from a saint (unless you were a jew, that is - naming a jew after a saint might be an insult to the saint in question) or something else considered good (that is where ancient non-christian names come in). nowadays you got more possibilities but you won't be allowed to chose a name that could torment the child later.

I think this is a little over reach by government...

So no boy named Sue... by the man in Black... you should get a laugh...

 

[rittmeister]

I think this is a little over reach by government...

So no boy named Sue... by the man in Black... you should get a laugh...

a boy named sue might work with the transgender discussion but when i named my kids it would have been a no go. a georg is pronounced schorsch in southern germany (that's a lot closer to your george than the way we pronounce georg). it was established in court the spelling schorsch is actually a name some decates ago.

don't forget that we used to be under the thump not just of nobility but even more the holy mother church* for roughly 2000 years here.

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* other religions aren't any better

 

[5fish]

a boy named sue might work with the transgender discussion but when i named my kids it would have been a no go. a georg is pronounced schorsch in southern germany (that's a lot closer to your george than the way we pronounce georg). it was established in court the spelling schorsch is actually a name some decates ago.

don't forget that we used to be under the thump not just of nobility but even more the holy mother church* here for roughly 2000 years.

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* other religions aren't any better

Our American modern day celebrities' would not be happy about not being able to name their kids some funky name...

 

[rittmeister]

Our American modern day celebrities' would not be happy about not being able to name their kids some funky name...

all your dawns would have been johannas (or somesuch) here. august is a man's name after the emperor not the month named for him (it's actually one of my six names and i hate it, but it got tradition in the family). and names that are traditionally for both genders like kai were forced to get a dash like kai-peter. the only name for both genders that didn't need a dash was maria (anotherone of mine)

... but i'm not up to date on that stuff and my grandkids all have recognizable names

 

[diane]

Von Borcke's reminisces of the CW and of Stuart are kind of nice - since he was not a Southerner and not particularly engaged in their cause, he wrote about Jeb Stuart more as an esteemed friend and great fighter. The feeling was mutual, too. He did have a tendency to add to the tale, though, if not in creating the legend. One such was a description of Stuart getting half his mustache shot off in a battle, just as slick as if it was shaved. Well...no! Think it was a bit of a joke - Stuart was quite proud of his luxurious facial fur!

 

[rittmeister]

Von Borcke's reminisces ...

you got it right that's the only place in a sentence where the von is capitalized (as he never was an american citizen i insist on german spelling)

 

[diane]

I think he died in Berlin and is buried in Poland. Have to look this up but he did get a bullet through his neck and it somehow worked its way into his lung - which likely helped him out the door. Wasn't very old.

 

[rittmeister]

Von Borcke's reminisces of the CW and of Stuart are kind of nice - since he was not a Southerner and not particularly engaged in their cause, he wrote about Jeb Stuart more as an esteemed friend and great fighter. The feeling was mutual, too. He did have a tendency to add to the tale, though, if not in creating the legend. One such was a description of Stuart getting half his mustache shot off in a battle, just as slick as if it was shaved. Well...no! Think it was a bit of a joke - Stuart was quite proud of his luxurious facial fur!

of course they were friends but in his case it was probably less sir walter scott and more deutsche heldensagen. the result is the same

 

[rittmeister]

I think he died in Berlin and is buried in Poland. Have to look this up but he did get a bullet through his neck and it somehow worked its way into his lung - which likely helped him out the door. Wasn't very old.

yep berlin - he was 59 or 60

 

[diane]

I'm not sure what is a heldensagen but if it means not so much swords and roses, I think that's it! Heros was a BIG fellow, too. He never really said why he fought for the South - he wasn't into the ideology or anything else - so I would suppose he was basically a warrior looking to fight. In it for a penny, in it for a pound - he was 100 percent for the South!

 

[rittmeister]

I'm not sure what is a heldensagen but if it means not so much swords and roses, I think that's it! Heros was a BIG fellow, too. He never really said why he fought for the South - he wasn't into the ideology or anything else - so I would suppose he was basically a warrior looking to fight. In it for a penny, in it for a pound - he was 100 percent for the South!

sorry, should have linked it - one heldensage, two heldensagen

Germanic heroic legend - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

he was also known to hoist the cbf in his later days

 

[diane]

Oh! Siegfried. Honor, loyalty, glory - that sounds like our pal. He could out-dress Stuart, too - and that wasn't easy!

 

[diane]

In 1938, the UDC chapter in Virginia were presented a blood-stained red sash worn by Heros von Borcke when he was shot in the neck. That's quite something! Wonder who gave it to them, family? You know, he was mighty lucky with that shot. Forrest's brother Jeffrey was killed by a bullet in the neck and it was bad - internal decapitation.

 

[jgoodguy]

he presented this gun to jeb stuart - dedication reads:

lt.gen j.e.b. stuart c.s.a. culpepper, va june 1863​

from heros von borcke​

it's a tranter revolver on display in the smithonian now

In 1883, Von Borcke's wife died, and two years later, he married her sister Tony, they named their daughter Karoline Virginia in honor of Borcke's adopted state.[1] In between, in 1884, he sailed back to revisit the Southern United States and was reunited with many former comrades and friends, including Wade Hampton, William H. F. Lee, and Matthew C. Butler. He died in Berlin in 1895 due to a sepsis caused by the remaining projectile which had wounded him in the Battle of Middleburg on 19 June 1863.[1] His headstone over his grave in Giesenbrügge was destroyed by the Red Army during World War II. The Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV) purchased a new headstone, which was reinstalled in 2008.[8]