Politicians, the good, the bad, and the ugly

Who's your favorite politician ?

  • John C. Calhoun

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Henry Clay

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Daniel Webster

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Thomas Jefferson

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • Andrew Jackson

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • John Q. Adams

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Abraham Lincoln

    Votes: 4 44.4%
  • John C. Breckenridge

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • None of the above

    Votes: 2 22.2%

  • Total voters
    9

O' Be Joyful

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The day after Van Buren was elected president, Jackson took the time to reflect on his own presidency with a friend. When asked if he had any regrets about the last eight years, this was his response: “[That] I didn’t shoot Henry Clay and I didn’t hang John C. Calhoun.”

"John Calhoun, if you secede from my nation, I will secede your head from the rest of your body." As The Week says, this one is unverified, but given Jackson's character and relationship with Calhoun, it's likely.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/57837/quotable-andrew-jackson-12-old-hickorys-best-lines
 

rittmeister

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Is there a period in American history, we should be looking at? Like before the Civil War, during the Civil War, or after the Civil War...
you did see daniel webster on that list?
 

18611096

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Correct me if I'm wrong but Calhoun was South Carolina senator when he nullified the tariff of 1828 right ? I recall he was a representative and eventually the Vice president but I don't remember what his last position was or the exact order.
For a great book that deals with allot of Calhoun's stances and how they influenced the CSA Constitution, I recommend this


It also sources many of his speeches etc that you can then read online.
 

5fish

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you did see daniel webster on that list?
I saw Daniel Webster but I saw Lincoln and Breckenridge too. I consider them more civil war figures than one's prior to the civil war.
 

General Lee

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Just a quick off topic question, are any of y'all related to these figures or any politicians of the time in any way ?
 

General Lee

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He has Thomas Jefferson and he is in the era before Webster, Clay and Jackson.
Excuse my mistakes, I'm still learning and expanding on my knowledge of the Antebellum era. I assumed it would have been at a maximum of 1800 to the 1850s having people like Jefferson who was president, Breckenridge who was vice president before the war, and others. However I can't change the names on there because I think it was edited already by a higher power on here.
 

byron ed

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Excuse my mistakes, I'm still learning and expanding on my knowledge of the Antebellum era...
By all means continue learning and expanding on your knowledge of the Antebellum era, yet somehow nonetheless you've consistently been claiming to "know" that Antebellum slavery was not the cause of secession, the Confederacy, or the Civil War. Pfft.
 
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General Lee

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By all means continue learning and expanding on your knowledge of the Antebellum era, yet somehow nonetheless you've consistently been claiming to "know" that Antebellum slavery was not the cause of secession, the Confederacy, or the Civil War. Pfft.
Look, were here in this thread to discuss the era and politicians but you repeatedly come at me with statements like that, and I don't appreciate it.
 

O' Be Joyful

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By all means continue learning and expanding on your knowledge of the Antebellum era, yet somehow nonetheless you've consistently been claiming to "know" that Antebellum slavery was not the cause of secession, the Confederacy, or the Civil War. Pfft.

There was zero need for that.

Perhaps you @byron ed require hearing the Old Grey...again...


Enlightenment is constant and never ending.
 

byron ed

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Look, were here in this thread to discuss the era and politicians but you repeatedly come at me with statements like that, and I don't appreciate it.
Here's what's not appreciated: repeated and unrelenting support of a Confederacy that never existed in the way you think it did; repeated and unrelenting slurs of a Lincoln that never existed, a repeated and unrelenting claim for "our" side -- claiming kinship to the Confederacy but without any of the risk or danger it took to be a real Confederate, and a repeated and constant wash of the actual and predominant African-American experience and impact on the Civil War in favor of microcosms like "loyal slave" and "black Confederate."

So yes of course we'd all rather be just discussing the era and politicians instead of advocating for a history that we personally want to have been.

So let's drop both the play-Union and the play-Confederate stuff. You can start by removing the Confederate jack as your avatar, out of respect to the real General Lee, his stated wish that it not be displayed or promoted post-war. In return I'll drop my "holy crusader" thing.

All things equal though, it isn't just me. Confederate apology just isn't passing like it used to. Folks today, the latest generations, just know too much and primary history resources are just too easy to access. Confederate apologists are coming off like Foghorn Leghorn anymore -- not my doing. Personally I wouldn't care except that the attitude has been killing off CW reenactments. Sponsoring communities, now even in the South, don't want to be identified anymore with the kind of "Confederate cause" BS espoused to spectators at the events by both Confederate and Union reenactors.*

At least you've still got that "other" CW forum before that becomes fully inbred and implodes.



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* there it is, that's my selfish motivation
 
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General Lee

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Here's what's not appreciated: repeated and unrelenting support of a Confederacy that never existed in the way you think it did; repeated and unrelenting slurs of a Lincoln that never existed, a repeated and unrelenting claim for "our" side -- claiming kinship to the Confederacy but without any of the risk or danger it took to be a real Confederate, and a repeated and constant wash of the actual and predominant African-American experience and impact on the Civil War in favor of microcosms like "loyal slave" and "black Confederate."

So yes of course we'd all rather be just discussing the era and politicians instead of advocating for a history that we personally want to have been.

So let's drop both the play-Union and the play-Confederate stuff. You can start by removing the Confederate jack as your avatar, out of respect to the real General Lee, his stated wish that it not be displayed or promoted post-war. In return I'll drop my "holy crusader" thing.

All things equal though, it isn't just me. Confederate apology just isn't passing like it used to. Folks today, the latest generations, just know too much and primary history resources are just too easy to access. Confederate apologists are coming off like Foghorn Leghorn anymore -- not my doing. Personally I wouldn't care except that the attitude has been killing off CW reenactments. Sponsoring communities, now even in the South, don't want to be identified anymore with the kind of "Confederate cause" BS espoused to spectators at the events by both Confederate and Union reenactors.*

At least you've still got that "other" CW forum before that becomes fully inbred and implodes.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* there it is, that's my selfish motivation
I already told you to back off, were here in this thread to discuss what we have been, and you like usual show up to create a ruckus. So I'm gonna ask you again to back off and take this somewhere else.
 

General Lee

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The day after Van Buren was elected president, Jackson took the time to reflect on his own presidency with a friend. When asked if he had any regrets about the last eight years, this was his response: “[That] I didn’t shoot Henry Clay and I didn’t hang John C. Calhoun.”

"John Calhoun, if you secede from my nation, I will secede your head from the rest of your body."
As The Week says, this one is unverified, but given Jackson's character and relationship with Calhoun, it's likely.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/57837/quotable-andrew-jackson-12-old-hickorys-best-lines
What was it that Clay did that got Jackson's attention to this degree ? did he pull a Calhoun, and try to nullify some laws ?
 

General Lee

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Hey, @General Lee , did you look up the Corrupt Bargain?
I sure did, from what I could gather it was a joint operation to keep Jackson out, getting Adams in as President and Clay as secretary of state, like a political buddy system. Also, I beleive Jackson Claimed he had more electoral votes or something along those lines.
 

O' Be Joyful

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What was it that Clay did that got Jackson's attention to this degree ? did he pull a Calhoun, and try to nullify some laws ?

Clay did not attempt to nullify any laws, Andy just didn't like the ones that were on the books.

Past is prologue. Or as Samuel Clemens once put to paper, "History don't repeat, but it sure as Hell rhymes."
 

Jim Klag

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I sure did, from what I could gather it was a joint operation to keep Jackson out, getting Adams in as President and Clay as secretary of state, like a political buddy system. Also, I beleive Jackson Claimed he had more electoral votes or something along those lines.
Very good. There are lots of good books on the 1824 election. Makes 2020 look tame.
 
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