Pirate and a Privateer?

[jgoodguy]

There was even a post ACW US Supreme Court Case that recognized the right of the Confederacy to draft people. Perhaps @jgoodguy knows the case.
Kirk's Raiders

I cannot find one. The only issue I can think of would be of conscripted southerners were prisoners of war or something to do with the Claims Commission.

For example one of the Claims Commission questions was

46. Were you in the Confederate army, State militia, or any military or naval organization hostile to the United States? If so, state when, where, in what organizations, how and why you entered, how long you remained each time, and when and how you left. If you claim that you were conscripted, when and where was it, how did you receive notice, and from whom, and what was the precise manner in which the conscription was enforced against you? If you were never in the rebel army or other hostile organization, explain how you escaped service. If you furnished a substitute, when and why did you furnish one, and what is his name, and his present address, if living?​

​

The implication of this was that conscription was legal but involuntary.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

I cannot find one. The only issue I can think of would be of conscripted southerners were prisoners of war or something to do with the Claims Commission.

For example one of the Claims Commission questions was

46. Were you in the Confederate army, State militia, or any military or naval organization hostile to the United States? If so, state when, where, in what organizations, how and why you entered, how long you remained each time, and when and how you left. If you claim that you were conscripted, when and where was it, how did you receive notice, and from whom, and what was the precise manner in which the conscription was enforced against you? If you were never in the rebel army or other hostile organization, explain how you escaped service. If you furnished a substitute, when and why did you furnish one, and what is his name, and his present address, if living?​

​

The implication of this was that conscription was legal but involuntary.

On the website that shall not be named there was reference to a US Supreme Court Case that stated the actions of the Confederacy were legal in regards to conscription and one of the justices wrote something to the effect about each side recognizing each other's"least the war becomes more cruel."
Kirk's Raiders

 

[jgoodguy]

On the website that shall not be named there was reference to a US Supreme Court Case that stated the actions of the Confederacy were legal in regards to conscription and one of the justices wrote something to the effect about each side recognizing each other's"least the war becomes more cruel."
Kirk's Raiders

You are the only one of us with search privileges there.

 

[diane]

Gosh, the legal legacy of the Confederacy is a little deep! I believe their states organized courts but the Confederacy never had a Supreme Court. Salmon P Chase made some very interesting arguments about the demise of the Confederacy, and the substantial changes in America period were profound. Did the Supremes really decide on the issue of Confederate privateers or just let it go - which is what they did with Admiral Semmes.

 

[jgoodguy]

Gosh, the legal legacy of the Confederacy is a little deep! I believe their states organized courts but the Confederacy never had a Supreme Court. Salmon P Chase made some very interesting arguments about the demise of the Confederacy, and the substantial changes in America period were profound. Did the Supremes really decide on the issue of Confederate privateers or just let it go - which is what they did with Admiral Semmes.

One of my favorite subjects.

As I recall, privateers got prisoner of war status. Lincoln wanted them to swing, but the legal ramifications, especially with England, were too much.

I'll have to review that sometime soon.

 

[jgoodguy]

On the website that shall not be named there was reference to a US Supreme Court Case that stated the actions of the Confederacy were legal in regards to conscription and one of the justices wrote something to the effect about each side recognizing each other's"least the war becomes more cruel."
Kirk's Raiders

Still waiting for details.

 

[diane]

One of my favorite subjects.

As I recall, privateers got prisoner of war status. Lincoln wanted them to swing, but the legal ramifications, especially with England, were too much.

I'll have to review that sometime soon.

Lincoln wouldn't have had any problem designating Raphael Semmes a pirate but, as you say, the connections with the Confederate privateers (which was their only navy) and the British government were vast. Thomas Haines Dudley was Lincoln's spymaster! (Great book, by the way.) Dudley's work on the British government's cooperation with the outfitting of Confederate ships prevented international interference in our civil war - Lincoln had the goods on Palmerston! The Alabama, though, was a near run thing - just about as thrilling as any James Bond movie. The Alabama was built by the Laird company in Liverpool - cutting edge design, too - and James Bulloch himself piloted her out of the channel into open sea. And...running along the dockside screaming stop! don't! was Tom Dudley himself! Came that close to stopping her. Charles Adams, who was Dudley's boss man, then went to Palmerston and said of course you know this means war. Palmerston dutifully denied knowledge of it, put a lockdown on the shipyards building for the Confederates and that was sort of kind of it.

 

[5fish]

Here is an article that points to the fact everyone considered Semmes as a pirate except for the captain of Kearsarge.

There to articles about Semmes and being pirate...

link: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazin...s-of-the-alabama-was-not-tried-part-i/520365/

No name connected with the Rebel service, unless that of some spy, “bush-whacker,” or guerilla of the grossest criminality, was so generally detested as that of Raphael Semmes. Harsh epithets were heaped upon him, not only by sailors and master-mariners, and merchants whose ships and goods had blazed under his torch, not only by “sensational” reporters and editors, but by some of our gravest writers and highest dignitaries, by whom he was habitually stigmatized as “free-booter,” “rover,” “corsair,” and “pirate.”

Snip...

roceeding fervido animo, — the fervor somewhat confusing the process of thought, — the Report complains that this “corsair” disregarded the laws of war by running away after his offer of surrender; as though “pirates” were subject to those laws. “Having surrendered, says the Report, Semmes cannot relieve himself of his obligations as a prisoner of war, until he shall be regularly exchanged.”

 

[diane]

Raphael Semmes made himself special by doing a Joshua Barney, who was also both a navy officer and an army commander. He was captured by the British in the war of 1812 but they didn't do anything. Bit of an odd war anyway!

Admiral Semmes became General Semmes by leaving his ship behind and taking the crew to fight on land - like marines. Don't know if the Confederacy had Marines or not but they did now! At any rate, as general he helped protect Jefferson Davis in his flight from Richmond, and surrendered with Joe Johnston in North Carolina. It's hardly ever noted who all was there with Johnston - Semmes is always overlooked.

So...he curdled his pudding right well!

 

[rittmeister]

Don't know if the Confederacy had Marines or not but they did now!

they had - confederate states marine corps

 

[O' Be Joyful]

So...he curdled his pudding right well!

Well...he was a lawyer after all, tons of 'em know ways to curdle your pudding and other..err stuff in your cellar. Often w/o you even noticing until it's too late.

In the span of three years during the Civil War Raphael Semmes, admiral, general and lawyer, ​

https://archives.alabama.gov/famous/r_semmes.html

 

[diane]

Semmes did all right after the war, much better than many others, but his views on the Confederacy remained firm and he was a bitter-ender. Never was reconstructed. He did teach philosophy at Louisiana State, same place Sherman was teaching at the beginning of the war, and was a judge. Kind of became a jack of all trades because of his unfailing support of viewpoints such as Jubal Early's. His memoirs are a standard for the Lost Cause theology.

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Semmes did all right after the war, much better than many others, but his views on the Confederacy remained firm and he was a bitter-ender. Never was reconstructed. He did teach philosophy at Louisiana State, same place Sherman was teaching at the beginning of the war, and was a judge. Kind of became a jack of all trades because of his unfailing support of viewpoints such as Jubal Early's. His memoirs are a standard for the Lost Cause theology.

IIRC he was also an expert on yankee wooden nutmegs similar to D.H. Hill.

https://books.google.com/books?id=5JoKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA124#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[diane]

You got to preach the word any way you can, brother!