Other Segregated militaries and challenges of integration

Leftyhunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2020
Messages
1,303
Reaction score
302
The Summer and Fall of 1983... The had a burger place called McDavid's... and no ice in your drinks...
If the Israelis were hostile to US Sailors they might have a good reason. On the other hand not sue why as Reagan was very pro Israeli.
Leftyhunter
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
the Israelis were hostile to US Sailor
Thye were not hostile towards us. They were just not friendly people in general like the French... I assumed my shipmate said or did something to offend the Israeli's he was with mixing with and I bet few drinks were involved too... but Israeli's would not socialize with us, just unfriendly... The tour was nothing more than Israeli propaganda...
 

Leftyhunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2020
Messages
1,303
Reaction score
302
Thye were not hostile towards us. They were just not friendly people in general like the French... I assumed my shipmate said or did something to offend the Israeli's he was with mixing with and I bet few drinks were involved too... but Israeli's would not socialize with us, just unfriendly... The tour was nothing more than Israeli propaganda...
Not sure how US Sailors are treated nowadays. Unlike the 1980s other navies such has the Chinese and Indian navies sometimes have port of call in Israel.
Leftyhunter
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
Not sure how US Sailors are treated nowadays. Unlike the 1980s other navies such has the Chinese and Indian navies sometimes have port of call in Israel.
Leftyhunter
I want to clarify something... the Israeli's I and my navy friends met did not know if we were sailors or not. We dress just like any other Israeli or Tourist... The Israelis we met were just not friendly people towards strangers even after they could tell we were Americans or even after learning we were sailors... They were just not a friendly people... but the non Israeli's we met were always friendly and my ship made two ports of call in Israel two different cities... never met a friendly one...
 

Leftyhunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2020
Messages
1,303
Reaction score
302
I want to clarify something... the Israeli's I and my navy friends met did not know if we were sailors or not. We dress just like any other Israeli or Tourist... The Israelis we met were just not friendly people towards strangers even after they could tell we were Americans or even after learning we were sailors... They were just not a friendly people... but the non Israeli's we met were always friendly and my ship made two ports of call in Israel two different cities... never met a friendly one...
That's unfortunate . Other people's milage varies because Israel has been a popular tourist destination for decades. For a small nation of only eight million people less people then Los Angeles County there are dozens of foreign airlines that fly there.
Leftyhunter
 

rittmeister

trekkie in residence
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,185
Reaction score
3,438
That's unfortunate . Other people's milage varies because Israel has been a popular tourist destination for decades. For a small nation of only eight million people less people then Los Angeles County there are dozens of foreign airlines that fly there.
Leftyhunter
don't underestimate holy land tourists - they probably don't care whether the natives are friendly (i don't say they aren't)
 

Leftyhunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2020
Messages
1,303
Reaction score
302
don't underestimate holy land tourists - they probably don't care whether the natives are friendly (i don't say they aren't)
That's certainly a big part of Israels tourism but they get a lot of repeat buisness as well so if there outwardly rude to tourists they shoot themselves in the foot.
Leftyhunter
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
holy land tourists -
As sailor you are offer tourist excursion form the ship...

Israels tourism
but sailors do not just do tourist things most of the time. We(sailors) mingle with the locals walking around the towns going places you should not be found in because your young men out for adventure... I have been in the ghetto's of Istanbul and walked so much we were outside the ancient walls of Constantinople. The whole time meeting locals... I have been in the back allies of Gaeta and had a thrill ride in a cab there... Again meeting the locals... In Athens, walked some streets eating Gyros and later Ouzo... again meeting the locals...

I did these same thing in Telavi and Haifa, Israel... meeting locals... and in Toulon, France... The best bread to eat was in Turkey...and street Italian pizza is lacking...
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
Here is a American Indian story... @diane


A group of 350 volunteers were gathered or “mustered in” for service at Maricopa Wells on Sept. 2, 1865, and thus became the first Battalion of Arizona Volunteers.

These volunteers spent a year chasing the Apaches all over the territory. They proved their valor in battle after battle. After the war was over, they retired with honor and as heroes. To honor these Arizona Volunteers, in the fall of 1866, the Third Arizona Territorial Legislature passed a memorial to their outstanding service.

In a proclamation signed by former Arizona Governor Dan E. Garvey, the outstanding service of Chiefs Chivaria and Azul was considered a point of pride in Arizona’s history. “Arizonans are proud of the loyalty and service which our Indians have given and will always give to the state and to the nation.” Chief Juan Chivaria led Company B with 94 Maricopa volunteers, and Pima Chief Antonio Azul led 88 Pimas in Company C. Descendents of these brave warriors kept the State Proclamations, dating back to the 1940s and commemorating the service of Companies B and C as Arizona’s First National Guardsmen, alive for many years with a reenactment of the “mustering-in” ceremonies in 1865 at Maricopa Wells.
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
This is and interesting link it tells which tribes backed the Brits or the Americans during the war of 1812... Some tribes had divided loyalties... I scroll down to each tribe and it will describe which side they fought an why... I figure they fought side by side with the Brits and Americans... One tribe had a civil war over it... @diane

 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
@Leftyhunter so what do you called foreign units used by the Brits... How did the brits keep up with all these different units....


Regiment de Meuron
The Regiment de Meuron was a regiment of infantry originally raised in Switzerland in 1781 for service with the Dutch East India Company (VOC). At the time the French, Spanish, Dutch and other armies employed units of Swiss mercenaries. The regiment was named for its commander, Colonel Charles-Daniel de Meuron, who was born in Neuchâtel in 1738. The regiment was finally posted to Canada to serve in the War of 1812. During the war, the Regiment served at the Battle of Plattsburg.

snip... good deal... land


Regiment de Watteville
De Watteville's Regiment was a Swiss regiment founded by Louis de Watteville and recruited from regiments that served between 1799 and 1801 in the Austrian army but in British pay. The troops then signed on as mercenaries, to be paid by the British. They fought in the Napoleonic Wars (1803–1815), mainly around the Mediterranean, and were based in Malta and then in Egypt from 1801 to 1803, fighting in Sicily and Naples. The regiment fought and won the Battle of Maida, in Italy in July 1806. From 1811 to 1813 the unit served under Wellington in the Peninsular War in Spain, and defending Cadiz in the Siege of Cádiz. The regiment sailed to Canada in 1813 to fight in the War of 1812, including at the Siege of Fort Erie. The unit was retired at the end of the war and soldiers were given tracts of land in Canada.
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
Here is a British unit that fought in the War of 1812 and cause great harm in Chesapeake area... more than just French some Germans too...


Independent Companies of Foreigners
The Independent Companies of Foreigners are one of the most notorious British units of the War of 1812. Recruited from an “appalling collection of ex-French prisoners,” they have long been vilified as the worst variety of foreign mercenaries utilised by the British Army during the Napoleonic period as a result of their outrageous and brutal behaviour during the 1813 Chesapeake Bay Campaign and subsequently.[1] While their atrocities, particularly their sacking of the town of Hampton, Virginia on 26 June 1813 are justly regarded as some of the most vicious crimes committed by either side during the War of 1812, they were not without cause. Rather, they were the direct outcome of an unfortunate combination of poor troops and even worse command decisions. This article examines the psychological, command and operational factors that led to their infamous conduct.

Here is another link:

 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
OMG... we have Germans fighting and being paid by the brits.... @rittmeister & @Wehrkraftzersetzer and @Daring Drea


snip...

The King's German Legion (KGL; German: Des Königs Deutsche Legion, semantically erroneous obsolete German variations are Deutsche Legion des Königs, Englisch-Deutsche Legion, Deutsche Legion) was a British Army unit of mostly expatriated German personnel during the period 1803–16. The legion achieved the distinction of being the only German force to fight without interruption against the French during the Napoleonic Wars.
 
Last edited:

rittmeister

trekkie in residence
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,185
Reaction score
3,438
OMG... we have Germans fighting and being paid by the brits.... @rittmeister & @Wehrkraftzersetzer


snip...

The King's German Legion (KGL; German: Des Königs Deutsche Legion, semantically erroneous obsolete German variations are Deutsche Legion des Königs, Englisch-Deutsche Legion, Deutsche Legion) was a British Army unit of mostly expatriated German personnel during the period 1803–16. The legion achieved the distinction of being the only German force to fight without interruption against the French during the Napoleonic Wars.
and?
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
Here a interesting trip.... This French units fights all over Europe... ends up in the British army as this...


The Army of Condé (French: Armée de Condé) was a French field army during the French Revolutionary Wars. One of several émigré field armies, it was the only one to survive the War of the First Coalition; others had been formed by the Comte d'Artois (brother of King Louis XVI) and Mirabeau-Tonneau. The émigré armies were formed by aristocrats and nobles who had fled from the violence in France after the August Decrees. The army was commanded by Louis Joseph de Bourbon, Prince de Condé, the cousin of Louis XVI of France. Among its members were Condé's grandson, the Duc d'Enghien and the two sons of Louis XVI's younger brother, the Comte d'Artois, and so the army was sometimes also called the Princes' Army.

It becomes the backbone of this British creations....


The Chasseurs Britanniques was a battalion-sized corps of foreign volunteers, who fought for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland during the Napoleonic Wars. The regiment was formed from the remnants of the Prince of Condé's Army after it was disbanded in 1800. The regiment entered British service in 1800 and continued to fight for the United Kingdom until 1814, when it was disbanded after Napoleon's first abdication and exile to Elba.

This becomes the backbone the Wellington's 7th division made up mostly of non British units... called the Mongrels...


summary...


The Chasseurs Britanniques Regiment was formed as the Revolutionary Wars that had racked Europe for many years slowly drew to a close. The reasons the men, and especially the officers, came to form a new regiment in the British Army were rooted in those wars and the upheaval in France that had ignited them. After extensive service in the Mediterranean, the Regiment joined Wellington's army in the Iberian Peninsula in 1811. It formed the nucleus of a new division, the 7th, nicknamed the 'Mongrels'. The soldiers of the Chasseurs Britanniques, from practically every European nation, served in Wellington's major battles such as Fuentes de Onoro, Salamanca and Vittoria as well as less famous operations, for instance the attempted storm of Fort San Cristobal (1811), at Llerena (1812) and in fighting above the Bidassoa (1813). This book sets out to tell the story of their formation and role in some detail. This is explained in the wider strategic context with the contribution of the other units the Chasseurs served alongside, especially those in the same brigade of the 7th Division, being described fully. Officers and men of the Regiment appear throughout and illustrate the diversity of the unit
 

Wehrkraftzersetzer

Hüter des Reinheitsgebotes
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
1,992
Reaction score
1,171
OMG... we have Germans fighting and being paid by the brits.... @rittmeister & @Wehrkraftzersetzer


snip...

The King's German Legion (KGL; German: Des Königs Deutsche Legion, semantically erroneous obsolete German variations are Deutsche Legion des Königs, Englisch-Deutsche Legion, Deutsche Legion) was a British Army unit of mostly expatriated German personnel during the period 1803–16. The legion achieved the distinction of being the only German force to fight without interruption against the French during the Napoleonic Wars.
why do You always page 2/3 of them Germans here?
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,619
Reaction score
4,544
They could have run to the Prussians but they loss Berlin to Napoleon... They could have just given in and join the Confederation of the Rhine... It seems the Brits the only German hope against Napoleon... I assume this is not taught in German schools... lol... or
 

rittmeister

trekkie in residence
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,185
Reaction score
3,438
They could have run to the Prussians but they loss Berlin to Napoleon... They could have just given in and join the Confederation of the Rhine... It seems the Brits the only German hope against Napoleon... I assume this is not taught in German schools... lol...
most of the officers soldiered for the brits because they didn't particullarily like the prussians (british royalty is more or less german for centuries, anyway) - do they teach the true background of the banana wars in your schools?
 
Top