Nathan B. Forrest

General Lee

Active Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
680
Reaction score
211
Hey y'all , I thought I'd bring up this here since yall are very knowledgeable of this General, especially you Diane. In my advanced US history class we've moved into reconstruction. We talked briefly about the Ku Klux Klan, Now when that slide come up smack in the middle was General Forrest. I've heard that he was the founder other times that the Klan has already existed so I would like to know about that. So what exactly was Forrest doing after the war? And if it was the Klan he was involved with what was he doing with that. It's my understanding that he tried to disband the group after it got crazy with killing blacks rather than being a military force like he planned.
 

diane

that gal
Joined
Mar 18, 2020
Messages
2,418
Reaction score
3,054
You called, Obi? :D


General Lee, Forrest after the war is a complex subject. The klan was already there and it was never a benign social club - Forrest was looking for something like it to resist Brownlow's government, which he considered illegitimate. He did not found it - it's well documented who did and so forth - and there's a serious question as to whether or not he was really a member. He told Congress in the 1871 investigation that he was not and never had been - he was telling the truth, imho. BUT...that doesn't mean he didn't lead them. I can't think of one group or organization that Forrest was involved in that he did not lead - just the nature of the man - and I doubt this was any different. His motive was mainly to remove Brownlow's government, install the Democrat party, stop the carpetbaggers from exploiting the defeated South and put blacks in their place. At this time, Forrest certainly wanted his livelihood back (he promoted immigration from Africa and China for laborers - slavery light, actually) but believed the blacks didn't need to be persecuted - they would see they couldn't compete with whites and 'come home'. The slave owner mentality had a LOT to learn! The most important reason, though, was he really believed the South would rise again real soon and this was a way to have a fighting force ready and available.

Actually, the klan's killing of Seymore Barham in 1869 was the key reason Forrest left and issued an order to disband. (The order is a curious artifact - doubtful Forrest had the authority to do it, worded obliquely enough to leave doubt it was an order to disband, and uncertain who really issued it!) Barham was a government agent who had been tracking down the klan's members and reportedly had a list of their leadership. It's probable Forrest and/or his brothers were on that list and that's why Brownlow's government man took a swim in the river with cement galoshes. Matt Luxton, Forrest's half-brother, was under investigation for plotting to assassinate Brownlow (not to mention crimes allegedly committed during the war) and Bill Forrest was supposedly leading the klan in eastern Texas - until he was tracked down by the redoubtable lawman Leander McNelly, the first commander of the Texas Rangers. Forrest came down to Gonzales TX for Bill's murder trial (he'd apparently killed the postmaster of Vine Grove 18 years earlier - unknown what that was about). Then he went to Washington DC to have a chat with Congress, who passed the KKK Act. So...it was a good time to leave.

There are more things to consider about Forrest during the Reconstruction era than his activities in the klan - in fact, that's really a foot note. The end of slavery was a major change that was hard to accept and war veterans can't always settle down that easily. There's the Democrat Convention of 1868, the racial riots in Memphis, his public break with radical groups which earned him the anger of many of his faithful old veterans, and his conversion to Christianity are all very important. He also was very active in taking care of disabled veterans and their families, especially orphans. He was the first (and only) Confederate general to acknowledge publicly that blacks were Southerners like himself by birthright and he did begin to work for harmony. Sure didn't become a civil rights activist but he did better than most - it's actually amazing someone like him was able to change at all.
 

O' Be Joyful

ohio hillbilly
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
3,491
Reaction score
3,136
the first commander of the Texas Rangers.
“You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas.” Davy Crockett said this angrily after losing his Tennessee bid for the U.S. Congress.

 

O' Be Joyful

ohio hillbilly
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
3,491
Reaction score
3,136
“You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas.” Davy Crockett said this angrily after losing his Tennessee bid for the U.S. Congress.


“If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell”

― General Philip Henry Sheridan

 

diane

that gal
Joined
Mar 18, 2020
Messages
2,418
Reaction score
3,054
“You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas.” Davy Crockett said this angrily after losing his Tennessee bid for the U.S. Congress.

Before the CW, the ties between Texas and Tennessee were very close. "Gone to Texas" was on a lot of doors in Tennessee - the Choctaws and Chickasaws had not yet given up their land and were prone to 'rise' very often, and Santa Anna was offering thousands of acres of land for free - all you had to do was work it for 10 years. In fact, Forrest signed up with a dragoon unit to fight in the Texan war of independence because there was a promise of 7 to 20,000 acres free land for the service. East Texas at that time was very similar to the famous Black Belt of Mississippi - extremely good farm land. (Forrest arrived in time for the end of the war so he didn't get any land - had to hitch hike back to Tennessee by splitting rails!)
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,711
Reaction score
4,559
Here is a story I did not know and do not if true... Do we not have those eight names... He ran an honorable KKK ? I found this article and thought it could set the tone... It is slanted to the right...


snip... when did this happen got names... quote below from Forrest...
  • "Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. I have been in the heat of battle when colored men, asked me to protect them. I have placed myself between them and the bullets of my men, and told them they should be kept unharmed. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand."
snip...

When the war started, Forrest asked 45 of his slaves (which he considered as servants) to join him, offering them their freedom after the war, no matter how it turned out. They all joined him and although they had numerous opportunities to desert him, 44 stayed by his side until the end of the war. In fact, part of his special command escort later called "the green berets" (ironic isn't it), consisted of the most elite and best soldiers available, and among them were eight black men. (Surely you are aware that nearly 100,000 black men fought for the Confederacy?).

snip... KKK honorable ?

The KKK of the late 1860's bears no resemblance to the thugs and racists of the new Klan formed at the turn of the century. The Klan Forrest rode with was to fight against the Yankee scalawags and carpetbaggers who were raping the south after the war. US. Army occupation forces committed innumerable atrocities, which today would certainly be classified as international war crimes, much of it against the free blacks. General Forrest joined a citizen militia then called the Klan to protect the citizens of the South, black and white alike, from these vicious atrocities.

This is the remarkable speech that Nathan Bedford Forrest gave to his troops as a farewell following his unconditional surrender to the North:

"Civil war, such as you have just passed through naturally engenders feelings of animosity, hatred, and revenge. It is our duty to divest ourselves of all such feelings; and as far as it is in our power to do so, to cultivate friendly feelings towards those with whom we have so long contended, and heretofore so widely, but honestly, differed. Neighborhood feuds, personal animosities, and private differences should be blotted out; and, when you return home, a manly, straightforward course of conduct will secure the respect of your enemies. Whatever your responsibilities may be to Government, to society, or to individuals meet them like men."
 

diane

that gal
Joined
Mar 18, 2020
Messages
2,418
Reaction score
3,054
Here is a story I did not know and do not if true... Do we not have those eight names... He ran an honorable KKK ? I found this article and thought it could set the tone... It is slanted to the right...


snip... when did this happen got names... quote below from Forrest...
  • "Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. I have been in the heat of battle when colored men, asked me to protect them. I have placed myself between them and the bullets of my men, and told them they should be kept unharmed. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand."
snip...

When the war started, Forrest asked 45 of his slaves (which he considered as servants) to join him, offering them their freedom after the war, no matter how it turned out. They all joined him and although they had numerous opportunities to desert him, 44 stayed by his side until the end of the war. In fact, part of his special command escort later called "the green berets" (ironic isn't it), consisted of the most elite and best soldiers available, and among them were eight black men. (Surely you are aware that nearly 100,000 black men fought for the Confederacy?).

snip... KKK honorable ?

The KKK of the late 1860's bears no resemblance to the thugs and racists of the new Klan formed at the turn of the century. The Klan Forrest rode with was to fight against the Yankee scalawags and carpetbaggers who were raping the south after the war. US. Army occupation forces committed innumerable atrocities, which today would certainly be classified as international war crimes, much of it against the free blacks. General Forrest joined a citizen militia then called the Klan to protect the citizens of the South, black and white alike, from these vicious atrocities.

This is the remarkable speech that Nathan Bedford Forrest gave to his troops as a farewell following his unconditional surrender to the North:

"Civil war, such as you have just passed through naturally engenders feelings of animosity, hatred, and revenge. It is our duty to divest ourselves of all such feelings; and as far as it is in our power to do so, to cultivate friendly feelings towards those with whom we have so long contended, and heretofore so widely, but honestly, differed. Neighborhood feuds, personal animosities, and private differences should be blotted out; and, when you return home, a manly, straightforward course of conduct will secure the respect of your enemies. Whatever your responsibilities may be to Government, to society, or to individuals meet them like men."
This is a mix - which is why Forrest is so difficult to fathom today.

The first snip is from the Polebearers Speech, given on the Fourth of July celebration in 1875. Two versions of it were published in the two Memphis newspapers - the Avalanche and the Appeal. One omitted the part where Forrest asked the black audience, "Come closer to us. We were born on the same land, breathe the same air, why should we not be brothers and sisters? We may differ in color but not in sentiment. We have one flag, one country - let us stand together." A few days later, after this speech of reconciliation, a sizable group of his old cavalry veterans signed a letter and published it condemning the speech and pointing out their outrage that he had kissed a black lady when she gave him some flowers. That put her on the same level as their wives, mothers, daughters and sisters! Forrest, of course, knew that. Before he gave the speech he had been in talks with black leaders in Memphis who, one might arguably say, were his counterparts - they ran groups of the Union League and other black organizations who were very much like the klan. (Brownlow encouraged black anger against whites - he was very cynical about the former slaves and had no problem using them against the former rebels.)

The next snip is again half and half. Forrest used his escort as no other general used theirs - for Forrest they were often shock troops, dismounted infantry, special forces, spies or whatever he needed them to be. It's true that his escort had six to eight black men in it but they were his own slaves. He trusted them as completely as anyone else he picked for his escort and they were very good. Two were badly wounded and disabled, one was killed.

Can't find a good thing to say about the klan at any point or in any of its many incarnations. However, it is true that many decent men joined the early one in the belief, like Forrest, that they were protecting their families, friends, way of life, and so forth. Really believed they were knights of old. Forrest can be blamed for para-militarizing it and for giving it a structure that made it almost impossible to irradicate, but he can also be noted as trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle. He did, particularly around the time of his Polebearers speech, try to dissuade anyone he knew was in the klan to leave it, not join up or have anything to do with it. He wrote a letter to a friend and said his involvement with the klan was 'the worst mistake of my life.'

Lastly, Forrest's farewell address was pretty good. He was very concerned about soldiers taking revenge for things that happened in the war. While he had the opportunity to go to Mexico, and Richard Taylor had actually arranged for him to go to Europe, Forrest decided to stay in Tennessee. He felt maybe the young men he had led to war could use his help to find peace. It was a very bumpy ride, to be sure!
 

5fish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
10,711
Reaction score
4,559
for Forrest they were often shock troops, dismounted infantry, special forces, spies or whatever he needed them to be. It's true that his escort had six to eight black men in it but they were his own slaves. He trusted them as completely as anyone else he picked for his escort and they were very good. Two were badly wounded and disabled, one was killed.
I ask all: "Would we not call these 8 black slaves that fought for Forrest "Black Confederates". I ask: why do we not have their names and why have not Neo- Confederates hunt these 8 Black Slaves down and parade them around? I ask : With no names and no Forrest historian truly studying them did they exist at all?
 

diane

that gal
Joined
Mar 18, 2020
Messages
2,418
Reaction score
3,054
I ask all: "Would we not call these 8 black slaves that fought for Forrest "Black Confederates". I ask: why do we not have their names and why have not Neo- Confederates hunt these 8 Black Slaves down and parade them around? I ask : With no names and no Forrest historian truly studying them did they exist at all?
Three of them received pensions from the state of Tennessee and one other from Mississippi. Tennessee would not have given those men pensions if it hadn't been for Forrest's influence - but they were listed as 'servants'. They were equipped and uniformed just like anyone else in Forrest's escort, but they were not listed as soldiers because their status was slave. And...I seriously doubt they fought for the Confederate cause! One was Forrest's personal servant, Jerry, an elderly man who was so devoted to Forrest the other blacks called him General. He was at least as tough! He remained with the family after the war for a few years then disappears - presumably passed away.
 
Top