Mission Statement...

[5fish]

These are considered the Mission statement for our nation and one for the Confederate States...


The preamble of our Constitution is considered a mission statement...

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The Gettysburg Address is considered a restatement or redefinition of our nation's mission statement...

Delivered at Gettysburg, Pa.

Nov. 19th 1863.

“Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. “Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. “But in a larger sense we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember, what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us,that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion, that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”

Here is the Confederate Constitution preamble...

We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America.

Here is the preamble of the Articles of Confederation...

To all to whom these Presents shall come, we, the undersigned Delegates of the States affixed to our Names send greeting. Whereas the Delegates of the United States of America in Congress assembled did on the fifteenth day of November in the year of our Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy seven, and in the Second Year of the Independence of America agree to certain articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of Newhampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhodeisland and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia in the Words following, viz. “Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of Newhampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhodeisland and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia.

 

[TomEvans]

These are considered the Mission statement for our nation and one for the Confederate States...


The preamble of our Constitution is considered a mission statement...

The US government claims that it simply CONTINUED a free, sovereign and independent state that was declared in 1776, as a union of 13 DEPENDENT states.

But in reality, it was an INTERNATIONAL union of 13 free, sovereign and independent STATES, officially established in 1783 under international law via the Treaty of Paris.

And starting in 1787, each unilaterally WITHDREW from that international union-- by its POWER as one of thirteen free, sovereign and independent states; to form ANOTHER international union under the Constitution instead.

So any federal claim of a single free, sovereign and independent STATE, is purely DE FACTO under self-coup-- and thus is not valid under international law, which still recognizes the original 13 free, sovereign and independent stats under the 1783 Treaty of Paris.

So here you're just engaging in pure confirmation-bias, and ignoring the glaring barriers to your logic.

 

[5fish]

So here you're just engaging in pure confirmation-bias, and ignoring the glaring barriers to your logic.

You have blinders on. I gave in to your ruse to move the story on, and you rolled back to a false tired ruse... I give you proper definitions to use and a line of argument, but you add nothing to the dialectical...

 

[TomEvans]

You have blinders on. I gave in to your ruse to move the story on, and you rolled back to a false tired ruse... I give you proper definitions to use and a line of argument, but you add nothing to the dialectical...

So you concede my points in the REST of the post:

The US government claims that it simply CONTINUED a free, sovereign and independent state that was declared in 1776, as a union of 13 DEPENDENT states.

But in reality, it was an INTERNATIONAL union of 13 free, sovereign and independent STATES, officially established in 1783 under international law via the Treaty of Paris.

And starting in 1787, each unilaterally WITHDREW from that international union-- by its POWER as one of thirteen free, sovereign and independent states; to form ANOTHER international union under the Constitution instead.

So any federal claim of a single free, sovereign and independent STATE, is purely DE FACTO under self-coup-- and thus is not valid under international law, which still recognizes the original 13 free, sovereign and independent stats under the 1783 Treaty of Paris.

 

[5fish]

Did you read the Gettysburg Address? Did you read the last line? If Lincoln were doing a so-called self-coup (which is a modern concept), I do not think he would have written the Gettysburg Address...

 

[TomEvans]

Did you read the Gettysburg Address? Did you read the last line? If Lincoln were doing a so-called self-coup (which is a modern concept),

So's the Big Bang... I guess THAT didn't happen either, since it was so long ago.

I do not think he would have written the Gettysburg Address...

You had it at the first three words of that sentence.

 

[5fish]

You had it at the first three words of that sentence.

This is your Big Bang... Open lines are a restatement of history...

 

[5fish]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,

You have been fighting this concept from day one on this forum...

 

[TomEvans]

You have been fighting this concept from day one on this forum...

No, you've been grasping at that STRAW from day one on this forum.

The US government ITSELF claims that the Constitution did not change any state's national sovereignty.

 

[TomEvans]

This is your Big Bang... Open lines are a restatement of history...

Got it-- you think national sovereignty can't have existed in 1783.

Loop-de-loo....... I'm outtie.

 

[5fish]

The US government ITSELF claims that the Constitution did not change any state's national sovereignty.

In what document, in what legal journal, what law passed... ??? verifies your statement...

 

[5fish]

I like to point out that the Preamble to the Constitution and the Gettysburg Address are literary masterpieces in purpose and brevity...

Preamble to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[5fish]

I forgot this preamble.... another masterpiece of literary purpose and beauty...

Declaration of Independence (1776):

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

 

[5fish]

Here are the preambles to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution... Do you see it?


Declaration of Independence (1776):

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Preamble to the Constitution (1787):

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 

[TomEvans]

In what document, in what legal journal, what law passed... ??? verifies your statement...

Lincoln's July 4, 1861 Message to Congress; and Congress CONCURRED when it AUTHORIZED Lincoln's executive actions against ALL of the states.
Meanwhile the Supreme Court rubber-stamped it 8 years later in Texas v. White.

This also relied on the precedent of Jackson's 1833 Force Bill, which used similar reasoning that the states were never 13 free, sovereign and independent states.

So the US government's entire argument, depends on the allegation that the states had NEVER been 13 free, sovereign and independent states.