Misc. Insurgency

[jgoodguy]

On the forum that shall not be named I would always ask if the Union Army was brutal during the Missiouri Counterinsurgency Campaign then give an example of a more humane Counterinsurgency Campaign.
I always got crickets on that question.
I would argue the Union Army was far more humane in the ACW Counterinsurgency then it would be latter in the Philippines and Vietnam. I am not to familiar with US Counterinsurgency in between that time period during the Banana Wars but the USMC did publish an operations manual based on their experience the 1940 Small Wars Manual.
Union troops don't appear to be any more brutal then US troops who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Kirk's Raiders

An interesting what if would be what if Southerns were a different race.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

An interesting what if would be what if Southerns were a different race.

We already know the answer. Compare and contrast the British Counterinsurgency Campaign against Jewish terrorists in British Mandate Palestine from 1945 to 1947 vs the British Counterinsurgency Campaign in Kenya during the Mau Mau Uprising.
Arguably the American Army was even worse in Vietnam and turned a blind eye to it's ally South Korea who's troops were even more brutal.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[alexjack]

We already know the answer. Compare and contrast the British Counterinsurgency Campaign against Jewish terrorists in British Mandate Palestine from 1945 to 1947 vs the British Counterinsurgency Campaign in Kenya during the Mau Mau Uprising.
Arguably the American Army was even worse in Vietnam and turned a blind eye to it's ally South Korea who's troops were even more brutal.
Kirk's Raiders

So broadly speaking what was the difference in the way the two campaigns were conducted. I've not looked at or Googled anything about either operation but I'm guessing you're going to say tactics against the Mau Mau were more brutal than those used against people like the Irgun.

 

[Jim Klag]

So broadly speaking what was the difference in the way the two campaigns were conducted. I've not looked at or Googled anything about either operation but I'm guessing you're going to say tactics against the Mau Mau were more brutal than those used against people like the Irgun.

There were no nice guys involved in that border war.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

So broadly speaking what was the difference in the way the two campaigns were conducted. I've not looked at or Googled anything about either operation but I'm guessing you're going to say tactics against the Mau Mau were more brutal than those used against people like the Irgun.

See the Guardian article on historian Caroline Erskine who won a Pulitzer Prize on her book about the British Counterinsurgency Campaign in Kenya and she testified at a trial where the British Government had to pay several thousand former Kenyan detainees about $4k each. The British killed tortured and raped tens of thousands of Kenyans. Not to argue the Mau Mau were peaceful protesters far from it. The British Government destroyed at least 3.5 tons of documents relating to the Main Mau counterinsurgency.
I never even read from a pro Israeli account of the British Counterinsurgency Campaign in Palestine of British troops even raping one Jewish woman.
Jews in British Palestine were not thrown in concentration camps . Not to say a few Jewish terrorists were not tortured.
Yes Erskine is controversial but it seems clear there was a massive British cover up in Kenya.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Jim Klag]

See the Guardian article on historian Caroline Erskine who won a Pulitzer Prize on her book about the British Counterinsurgency Campaign in Kenya and she testified at a trial where the British Government had to pay several thousand former Kenyan detainees about $4k each. The British killed tortured and raped tens of thousands of Kenyans. Not to argue the Mau Mau were peaceful protesters far from it. The British Government destroyed at least 3.5 tons of documents relating to the Main Mau counterinsurgency.
I never even read from a pro Israeli account of the British Counterinsurgency Campaign in Palestine of British troops even raping one Jewish woman.
Jews in British Palestine were not thrown in concentration camps . Not to say a few Jewish terrorists were not tortured.
Yes Erskine is controversial but it seems clear there was a massive British cover up in Kenya.
Kirk's Raiders

The lady's name was Caroline ELKINS not Erskine.

 

[Jim Klag]

Caroline Elkins' Pulitzer winning book is Imperial Reckoning: The Untold Story Of The British Gulag In Kenya.

 

[alexjack]

See the Guardian article on historian Caroline Erskine who won a Pulitzer Prize on her book about the British Counterinsurgency Campaign in Kenya and she testified at a trial where the British Government had to pay several thousand former Kenyan detainees about $4k each. The British killed tortured and raped tens of thousands of Kenyans. Not to argue the Mau Mau were peaceful protesters far from it. The British Government destroyed at least 3.5 tons of documents relating to the Main Mau counterinsurgency.
I never even read from a pro Israeli account of the British Counterinsurgency Campaign in Palestine of British troops even raping one Jewish woman.
Jews in British Palestine were not thrown in concentration camps . Not to say a few Jewish terrorists were not tortured.
Yes Erskine is controversial but it seems clear there was a massive British cover up in Kenya.
Kirk's Raiders

Yes I remember the Compensation payouts. Unfortunately no government from a predominantly White country during the Fifties would have seen anything wrong with the way the Kenyan people were treated during that time period. Palestine was different in that Israel was a country struggling for birth out of the Holocaust and Israelis had a lot of support worldwide so the British had to tread lightly.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Have you read The War of the Running Dogs by Noel Barber? It's a good account of the Malayan Emergency.

No it sounds interesting. The Malayan Emergency from 1948 to 1960 is considered to be the textbook example of how a Counterinsurgency war should be fought and there was critisism of the US for not being successful as we're the British in Malaya. Of course the wars were apples and oranges as the communist insurgents in Malaya were mostly from the despised Chinese minority. The Maylaysn insurgents didn't have anything like the Ho Chi Minh Trail and we're rather isolated.
Leftyhunter

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Yes I remember the Compensation payouts. Unfortunately no government from a predominantly White country during the Fifties would have seen anything wrong with the way the Kenyan people were treated during that time period. Palestine was different in that Israel was a country struggling for birth out of the Holocaust and Israelis had a lot of support worldwide so the British had to tread lightly.

Plus the Irgun and Stern Gang didn't butcher many British civilians of course the big attrocity was the bombing of the King David Hotel so yeah not nice guys but not the same death rate as the Mau Mau Rebellion.
Interestingly enough the British SAS held a grudge against the Israelis for quite some time. Which was ironic in the sense that the UK was in the 1950s and 1960s a major arms supplier to the Israelis and of course Jordan as well : sound familiar?
If the Mods or @jgoodguy want to split this thread that's fine.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[alexjack]

Plus the Irgun and Stern Gang didn't butcher many British civilians of course the big attrocity was the bombing of the King David Hotel so yeah not nice guys but not the same death rate as the Mau Mau Rebellion.
Interestingly enough the British SAS held a grudge against the Israelis for quite some time. Which was ironic in the sense that the UK was in the 1950s and 1960s a major arms supplier to the Israelis and of course Jordan as well : sound familiar?
If the Mods or @jgoodguy want to split this thread that's fine.
Kirk's Raiders

My wife's Dad was in the British army, serving in Palestine and heard the explosion that blasted the King David Hotel.

 

[5fish]

What?

 

[Nitti]

What?

What's on second,who's on first.

 

[O' Be Joyful]

What's on second,who's on first.

A classic that always makes me laugh.