Lincoln Must Die...

if you had a time machine ...

  • ... i'd save abraham lincoln

    Votes: 2 66.7%
  • ... i'd let him die

    Votes: 1 33.3%

  • Total voters
    3
  • Poll closed .

Jim Klag

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Like his views on emancipation, Lincoln’s position on social and political equality for African-Americans would evolve over the course of his presidency. In the last speech of his life, delivered on April 11, 1865, he argued for limited black suffrage, saying that any black man who had served the Union during the Civil War should have the right to vote
And that makes them citizens, equal under law. Only citizens can vote. The 13th Amendment freed them and the 14th Amendment guaranteed their rights as citizens.
 

5fish

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the 14th Amendment guaranteed their rights as citizens.
I like to remind you Lincoln had been dead before it became a thought in the mind of Stevens mind and he had been dead for over a year before Congress passed and sent it to the states. I like to remind you Lincoln was not for full suffrage for X-Slaves for he wanted just the educated ones like Douglas and ones who served in the Union army to vote.

I found a link which will give you a simplified history of the 14th amendment...


I do want to note the 14th amendment was used in giving Corporation rights like citizens...
 

Jim Klag

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I like to remind you Lincoln had been dead before it became a thought in the mind of Stevens mind and he had been dead for over a year before Congress passed and sent it to the states. I like to remind you Lincoln was not for full suffrage for X-Slaves for he wanted just the educated ones like Douglas and ones who served in the Union army to vote.

I found a link which will give you a simplified history of the 14th amendment...


I do want to note the 14th amendment was used in giving Corporation rights like citizens...
Thanks for the completely unnecessary reminder. Just a sequence of events - Lincoln set them free and Thaddeus Stevens made them citizens.

Just a reminder, you cannot give part of a population (blacks who fought in the war) voting rights and not the rest. If any African American men were going to be given the vote, all were going to get it. It would be impossible not to.
 

5fish

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If any African American men were going to be given the vote, all were going to get it. It would be impossible not to.
People with racist views always fine a way to put in play their racist views in society and in law. Lincoln would have found a way...
 

diane

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People with racist views always fine a way to put in play their racist views in society and in law. Lincoln would have found a way...
I think of Lincoln as having the same handicap about race Forrest did - raised to believe certain things were true that were not true. Lincoln came to find out these things were wrong. Like Forrest, he couldn't get rid of all of it but he sure made headway with it. Lincoln was not a racist - there has to be an element of hatred for it to be that. He never hated black people.
 

Jim Klag

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People with racist views always fine a way to put in play their racist views in society and in law. Lincoln would have found a way...
You are projecting. YOU want something to be true but you are in love with what-if scenarios and cannot just post facts. The fact is, it would have been constitutionally and politically impossible to give some African Americans the vote while depriving other African Americans of that right.
 

Wehrkraftzersetzer

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there has to be an element of hatred for it to be that
Objection, nope racist means not hatred /this can be added)

Racist means "knowing" / believing / assuming that different phenotypes of the human race are of different value

Racism can be on such small difference that it is not even a phenotype difference but a piece of pronunciation or the fact that the less valuable "race" are the godless left handers

 
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diane

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Yes, that's how one race decides they can make another race into a commodity - but doesn't necessarily include hatred. Ignorance, big time! I've experienced both - people who didn't like me because I was me and people who really hated me and would have no problem blowing my head off! That's why I think Lincoln was in the ignorant-by-taught rather than the other.
 

5fish

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You are projecting. YOU want something to be true but you are in love with what-if scenarios and cannot just post facts. The fact is, it would have been constitutionally and politically impossible to give some African Americans the vote while depriving other African Americans of that right.
No you are projecting, sir. If Lincoln had lived there may not have been a 14th amendment or it may have come along much later and different. WE know as fact Lincoln was not for full suffrage for freedmen but he may have come around to embrace it later if he had lived. He did come around to freeing the slaves...
 

5fish

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Objection, nope racist means not hatred /this can be added)

Racist means "knowing" / believing / assuming that different phenotypes of the human race are of different value

Racism can be on such small difference that it is not even a phenotype difference but a piece of pronunciation or the fact that the less valuable "race" are the godless left handers

A good video...
 

rittmeister

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You are projecting. YOU want something to be true but you are in love with what-if scenarios and cannot just post facts. The fact is, it would have been constitutionally and politically impossible to give some African Americans the vote while depriving other African Americans of that right.
nothing bad with what-ifs, though (as long as they are not too fishy, that is)
 

rittmeister

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No you are projecting, sir. If Lincoln had lived there may not have been a 14th amendment or it may have come along much later and different. WE know as fact Lincoln was not for full suffrage for freedmen but he may have come around to embrace it later if he had lived. He did come around to freeing the slaves...
maybe, that was 'cause someone kinda shot him dead?
 

5fish

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Here a professional what is answer if Lincoln had lived... it goes into a few things...


Lincoln may have supported Congress in pushing for limited extension of suffrage to “very intelligent” freedmen or those who had fought for the Union, and he undoubtedly would have supported the Freedmen’s Bureau in providing federal assistance. “But would the condition of African American people in the South have been substantially different? No,” says Smith. “The South would have ended up in the same state – with Jim Crow, segregation and disenfranchisement – which was solidified in the 1890s, not during Reconstruction. There was no way white southerners weren’t running the show.”
 

O' Be Joyful

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No you are projecting, sir. If Lincoln had lived there may not have been a 14th amendment or it may have come along much later and different.

So, your conclusion is that Johnson was a useful reconstruction idiot?
 
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