Lee's Last Stand... Gun in Hand...

5fish

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How would Lee be remembered if he had fought to the last man at Appomattox on April 8th, 1865 and die with a gun in hand.?

Would he still a hero in the eyes of people today?

Would the last stand at Appomattox be compared to the Alamo or Thermopylae with the same praise?

Would the last stand at Appomattox be consider by historians as foolishness of a zealot?

Would there have been a "Lost Cause movement" if Lee had die that way or would it have added more fuel to the movement and Lee's legend?

How would such an act be perceived?
 

5fish

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Imagine....

Could you picture Lee asking his men to stand with him until last. Think of that historical image of Lee asking his fellow soldiers to stand with him until death.

Think of the pressure a soldier in Lee's army would feel if he refused to stand with Lee until the end. Think of the pressure of the other confederate soldiers around the south like Johnston, Forrest, Smith if they did stand until death with their soldiers as Lee had.

I think it would have led to a insurgent warfare and many think Reconstruction was bad. Lee would become the symbol that would be use for years to rally the white south to fight on.

I think today he would be a symbol of evil in the none southern schools and symbol of pride in the southern schools. He would be a polarizing image today if he had made a last stand at Appomattox....

The way Lee surrender did a lot for keeping the peace in the years falling the war....One reason he is a belove figure by most people today
 

5fish

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It seems we all soon forget if Lee had gotten to his trains full of food for his troops, he would have fought on. There was most likely would have been one grand battle with AoNV if Lee could have fed them. It most likely would have been like Sailor Creek a crushing defeat and Lee may have enter the fray to keep his lines from collapsing. You know like Ceaser did at the battle of Alesia...
 

diane

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Lee tried to enter the fray three times way before Appomattox and his men wouldn't let him. The idea of a suicide ride crossed his mind - he mused to his aides that he could go out there, just him, Traveller and the Confederate flag, and jog along the enemy lines until they closed his business. Again - his men would get killed preventing him from doing it. Any time Lee wanted to get into the action himself, they stopped him!

One thing Grant was worried about was a guerilla war, which would have been the only way to keep from losing - never winning but never losing. This was suggested to Lee and had he given the word, his army would have vaporized into the hills right before the Union forces. Grant would have spent the rest of his life fighting them then. Sherman believed Forrest would do this, which is why he made it clear without saying so that Forrest had to be killed. The cavalrymen were his biggest fear. It was not desirable, however, for Lee to bite the dust in combat at this point. That would have made many of his men turn renegade and vow to fight forever.

Having an Alamo last stand fight at Amelia Courthouse might have made some sense but Lee could not see the gain in getting people killed who had been the die-hard loyal veterans of many battles. This would have been a waste of dedicated lives that the South would need to rebuild - these soldiers couldn't be murdered, and that is how Lee would have seen such a fight. In the west, there were still two barely viable armies in the field - Taylor's and Kirby-Smith's as well as remnants of Hood's army. The cavalry was in better shape in the Trans-Mississippi with JO Shelby still a viable force. Taylor was finished but there was a chance Forrest might continue to fight - he told them anybody who thought the war should continue was a madman who needed to be sent to an asylum immediately. Lee would have agreed with him! George Thomas told Forrest Mississippi and Tennessee would be a hundred years buried if he decided to keep fighting - but he didn't need to make the threat. Lee knew it was over when it was over and...it was over. Further fighting meant further destruction of what he had been fighting for.
 

5fish

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Having an Alamo last stand fight at Amelia Courthouse might have made some sense but Lee could not see the gain in getting people killed who had been the die-hard loyal veterans of many battles.
I think the only reason Lee surrendered was his army was hungry. If he could have beaten the union to the trains by a day or two Lee would have fought on. I suspect he would have thrown himself into the fray if the fighting started to break his lines... I wonder if he had died in battle with gun in hand after killing several Yankees would that have sparked a guerrilla movement...
 

diane

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I think the only reason Lee surrendered was his army was hungry. If he could have beaten the union to the trains by a day or two Lee would have fought on. I suspect he would have thrown himself into the fray if the fighting started to break his lines... I wonder if he had died in battle with gun in hand after killing several Yankees would that have sparked a guerrilla movement...
The war was lost at Amelia Courthouse! When Lee didn't get food, his army couldn't fight any further. Already large numbers of hungry men had gone off and others were straggling to hunt. I agree with you about Lee's death in battle - nothing like becoming a martyr!
 

5fish

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If Lee had fought for a day or two longer down to the last men it would have gone down as a great defeat emboldening the rebel cause and the lost cause that came later.

Johnston and his army would have been force to at least have one more great battle with Sherman before he surrender or maybe they go down to the last man as well...
 

O' Be Joyful

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If Lee had fought for a day or two longer down to the last men it would have gone down as a great defeat emboldening the rebel cause and the lost cause that came later.

Johnston and his army would have been force to at least have one more great battle with Sherman before he surrender or maybe they go down to the last man as well...
Well, thank gawd that Stonewall died under the shade of the trees, or it might have happened. But cooler heads prevailed.
 

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If Lee had fought for a day or two longer down to the last men it would have gone down as a great defeat emboldening the rebel cause and the lost cause that came later.

Johnston and his army would have been force to at least have one more great battle with Sherman before he surrender or maybe they go down to the last man as well...
If Lee had fought a day or two longer, the result would have been more dead rebels. It would have forced Joe Johnston to do precisely nothing. Nobody was going to force Joe Johnston to do any fighting, especially if it meant destroying the rest of his army.
 

diane

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I don't think Lee doing a dead man's stand would have helped any at all. In fact, he might have had a generals' mutiny! By the time he was cornered at Appomattox, Lee's army was destroyed. He thought it had dissolved at Saylor's Creek. That was Grant's objective - kill the ANV. Lee's army would have been as much use to Johnston as the AoT was - tiny groups of die-hards coming in to make a last stand with their Uncle Joe.
 

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Imagine....

Could you picture Lee asking his men to stand with him until last. Think of that historical image of Lee asking his fellow soldiers to stand with him until death.

Think of the pressure a soldier in Lee's army would feel if he refused to stand with Lee until the end. Think of the pressure of the other confederate soldiers around the south like Johnston, Forrest, Smith if they did stand until death with their soldiers as Lee had.

I think it would have led to a insurgent warfare and many think Reconstruction was bad. Lee would become the symbol that would be use for years to rally the white south to fight on.

I think today he would be a symbol of evil in the none southern schools and symbol of pride in the southern schools. He would be a polarizing image today if he had made a last stand at Appomattox....

The way Lee surrender did a lot for keeping the peace in the years falling the war....One reason he is a belove figure by most people today
You normally go down "gun in hand" 4 exactly 3 reasons (only one is hounorable)

1) You are surrounded & do know there is no quarter & no chance to escape: well let it make as expanisve as possible

2) You are a complete idiot
3) Your CinC is a complete idiot, & this goes down the entire chain of command (an Austrian Gefreiter comes to mind)




as the Brits said (at Dünkirchen)

those who run away will fight the other day
(or get exchanged / paroled / whatever, at least cost the enemy resources to guard and feed)
 

diane

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Forrest was the one they were really afraid would do that. He had fought with such determination and skill that both Grant and Sherman were certain he would not surrender. Stuart had an excellent support/spy web in the east but it was demolished with his death and Lee's surrender. Forrest's was not. In fact, it came back to haunt them with the kkk. In a way, Forrest didn't surrender - the klan was nothing less than insurgency. Lee, on the other hand, was not under the kind of pressure Forrest was in Tennessee. He had fought, lost and now it was time to pick up the pieces. Forrest thought so as well but somebody kept knocking the pieces out of his hand! He came to believe another rebellion was likely. Forrest was as popular among the average Southerner in the west as Lee was in the east - and that didn't diminish as time went on. Either one of them doing a last stand, going out with guns blazing, would have set the South on a course of continued fighting. As it was, it was literally decades for the state sheriffs and federal marshals to clean up the last of the rebels - especially the war lords and outlaws.
 

5fish

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Just think what Appomattox would be today, it would shrine to those last few hundred that would not surrender the cause. Lee's name would be mention with the likes King Leonidas, Davie Crockett for great final last stands. There be a grande monument to Lee and those who fell with him at Appomattox... It would have become a pilgrimage sight for those who lived in the south for years after the war to pay homage to those brave souls of the cause...
 
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O' Be Joyful

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Just think what Appomattox would be today, it would shrine to those last few hundred that would not surrender the cause. Lee's name would be mention with the likes King Leonidas, Davie Crockett for great finial last stands. There be a grande monument to Lee and those who fell with him at Appomattox... It would have become a pilgrimage sight for those who lived in the south for years after the war to pay homage to those brave soul of the cause...

Or a monument to the lost ribs...err... rebs.
 
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