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[5fish]

Hey I think we all got it wrong so @rittmeister , @Wehrkraftzersetzer , @Kirk's Raider's , @O' Be Joyful , @jgoodguy ... It seems an Austrian Jew man invented the first modern car...

Link: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2...le-and-wrote-siegfried-marcus-out-of-history/

Siegfried Samuel Marcus (German: [ˈziːkfʁiːt ˈmaʁkʊs]; 18 September 1831 – 1 July 1898) was a German inventor. Marcus was born of Jewish descent in Malchin, in the Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. He made several petrol-powered vehicles, the first one in 1864, while living in Vienna, Austria.

Snip...

Benz and Daimler, like Henry Ford and other automotive pioneers, saw a business opportunity. Marcus already had a thriving business so to him the motorcar was more of an intellectual pursuit and he never tried to manufacture or sell his motorcars, though he did, like David Buick, Henry Leland and the Dodge Brothers, sell engines for stationary and marine applications.

Snip...

In the late 1880s, about the same time that Benz was developing the Patent Wagen, Marcus built a second motorcar, this one much more sophisticated than the first Marcus motorcar and in a number of ways closer to a modern car than Benz’s three wheeler. To begin with, it had four wheels, but it also had magneto powered electric ignition. Spark ignition would not become standard in automotive engines for at least 15 more years.

Snip... The nazi wrote him out of history... well tried...

Then came the Auschluss, the unification of Austria and Germany under Nazi rule in 1938. The statue of Marcus was torn down, the memorial plaque ripped off the engineering college’s wall. The automobile, the autobahns and the Volkswagen, were important aspects of the Third Reich’s policies. In that light it would not do to have a Jew as the inventor of the automobile. So history was rewritten.

Here is his first car...



Here is his second ... His second one was rediscovered in 1950. It'd been bricked up behind a false wall in the cellar of a Viennese museum to hide it from the Germans. Markus was Jewish, and the Nazis had orders to destroy his car and any literature describing it. By the way, when the car was rediscovered, it could still be driven.

 

[rittmeister]

never heard of him

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Hey I think we all got it wrong so @rittmeister , @Wehrkraftzersetzer , @Kirk's Raider's , @O' Be Joyful , @jgoodguy ... It seems an Austrian Jew man invented the first modern car...

Link: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2...le-and-wrote-siegfried-marcus-out-of-history/

Siegfried Samuel Marcus (German: [ˈziːkfʁiːt ˈmaʁkʊs]; 18 September 1831 – 1 July 1898) was a German inventor. Marcus was born of Jewish descent in Malchin, in the Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. He made several petrol-powered vehicles, the first one in 1864, while living in Vienna, Austria.

Snip...

Benz and Daimler, like Henry Ford and other automotive pioneers, saw a business opportunity. Marcus already had a thriving business so to him the motorcar was more of an intellectual pursuit and he never tried to manufacture or sell his motorcars, though he did, like David Buick, Henry Leland and the Dodge Brothers, sell engines for stationary and marine applications.

Snip...

In the late 1880s, about the same time that Benz was developing the Patent Wagen, Marcus built a second motorcar, this one much more sophisticated than the first Marcus motorcar and in a number of ways closer to a modern car than Benz’s three wheeler. To begin with, it had four wheels, but it also had magneto powered electric ignition. Spark ignition would not become standard in automotive engines for at least 15 more years.

Snip... The nazi wrote him out of history... well tried...

Then came the Auschluss, the unification of Austria and Germany under Nazi rule in 1938. The statue of Marcus was torn down, the memorial plaque ripped off the engineering college’s wall. The automobile, the autobahns and the Volkswagen, were important aspects of the Third Reich’s policies. In that light it would not do to have a Jew as the inventor of the automobile. So history was rewritten.

Here is his first car...

View attachment 2236

Here is his second ... His second one was rediscovered in 1950. It'd been bricked up behind a false wall in the cellar of a Viennese museum to hide it from the Germans. Markus was Jewish, and the Nazis had orders to destroy his car and any literature describing it. By the way, when the car was rediscovered, it could still be driven.

View attachment 2237

No wonder... Henry Ford was pissed.

ünd got medals ünd contracts in der Fätherland.

 

[rittmeister]

he was not austrian but prussian (a citizen of the grand duchy of mecklenburg schwerin) and his first car is timed in 1870 by every source i found (most of them claiming it had been falsly attributed to 1866)

but i'm not going into deep research mode right now

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Hey I think we all got it wrong so @rittmeister , @Wehrkraftzersetzer , @Kirk's Raider's , @O' Be Joyful , @jgoodguy ... It seems an Austrian Jew man invented the first modern car...

Link: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2...le-and-wrote-siegfried-marcus-out-of-history/

Siegfried Samuel Marcus (German: [ˈziːkfʁiːt ˈmaʁkʊs]; 18 September 1831 – 1 July 1898) was a German inventor. Marcus was born of Jewish descent in Malchin, in the Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. He made several petrol-powered vehicles, the first one in 1864, while living in Vienna, Austria.

Snip...

Benz and Daimler, like Henry Ford and other automotive pioneers, saw a business opportunity. Marcus already had a thriving business so to him the motorcar was more of an intellectual pursuit and he never tried to manufacture or sell his motorcars, though he did, like David Buick, Henry Leland and the Dodge Brothers, sell engines for stationary and marine applications.

Snip...

In the late 1880s, about the same time that Benz was developing the Patent Wagen, Marcus built a second motorcar, this one much more sophisticated than the first Marcus motorcar and in a number of ways closer to a modern car than Benz’s three wheeler. To begin with, it had four wheels, but it also had magneto powered electric ignition. Spark ignition would not become standard in automotive engines for at least 15 more years.

Snip... The nazi wrote him out of history... well tried...

Then came the Auschluss, the unification of Austria and Germany under Nazi rule in 1938. The statue of Marcus was torn down, the memorial plaque ripped off the engineering college’s wall. The automobile, the autobahns and the Volkswagen, were important aspects of the Third Reich’s policies. In that light it would not do to have a Jew as the inventor of the automobile. So history was rewritten.

Here is his first car...

View attachment 2236

Here is his second ... His second one was rediscovered in 1950. It'd been bricked up behind a false wall in the cellar of a Viennese museum to hide it from the Germans. Markus was Jewish, and the Nazis had orders to destroy his car and any literature describing it. By the way, when the car was rediscovered, it could still be driven.

View attachment 2237

Interesting but then again Markus didn't make a buisness out of manufactring automobiles as did Benez . Many major inventions actually have more then one design come out at about the same time .
Still the idea of an armoured self propelled fighting vehicle during the ACW is a bit fanciful.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[O' Be Joyful]

but i'm not going into research right now

Does this help?

Siegfried Marcus Car

An experimental automobile resembling today's modern car and the oldest extant automobile known worldwide.

www.asme.org

 

[5fish]

never heard of him

I hope you look him up because the Nazi tried to write him out of the history books...

But better this along with my next find shows almost proves if the Confederacy or the Union had any foresight and lets throw in the Prussians... There could have been at least steam and as we see gas driven personal carries in the Civil War... @rittmeister , @Wehrkraftzersetzer , @O' Be Joyful , @Kirk's Raider's , @jgoodguy : you bunch of naysayers... We could have had a Steam Punk Civil War after all...

Snip... steam power vehicles

The Henry Seth Taylor steam buggy is the first known car built in Canada. It was built by Henry Seth Taylor, a watchmaker and jeweller in Stanstead, Quebec in 1867. It was unveiled at the Stanstead Fall Fair that year. The vehicle was crashed into a creek shortly thereafter.



Snip rediscovered in the 1950...

The vehicle lay disassembled in a barn where the wood from the carriage body and wheels had rotted away; it was discovered in the 1950s and was purchased and later restored by American collector Richard Stewart. In 1983, it was purchased from Stewart by the Canada Science and Technology Museum in Ottawa, where it has remained since.[1] The original brass-work around the cylinders and the oil caps were found to be in "fantastic condition", but the boiler has been replaced two times.

LINK: https://www.cobblebeachconcours.com/1867-henry-seth-taylor-steam-bug

LINK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Seth_Taylor_steam_buggy

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

No wonder... Henry Ford was pissed.

ünd got medals ünd contracts in der Fätherland.

Actually while Ford hated Jews he was not anti-Semetic. From what I read Ford imported Arabs from then Turkish Palestine to Detroit where they earned good money definitely better then back home.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[rittmeister]

Does this help?

Siegfried Marcus Car

An experimental automobile resembling today's modern car and the oldest extant automobile known worldwide.

www.asme.org

nope . it's dated 15 years later in what i found

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

I hope you look him up because the Nazi tried to write him out of the history books...

But better this along with my next find shows almost proves if the Confederacy or the Union had any foresight and lets throw in the Prussians... There could have been at least steam and as we see gas driven personal carries in the Civil War... @rittmeister , @Wehrkraftzersetzer , @O' Be Joyful , @Kirk's Raider's , @jgoodguy : you bunch of naysayers... We could have had a Steam Punk Civil War after all...

Snip... steam power vehicles

The Henry Seth Taylor steam buggy is the first known car built in Canada. It was built by Henry Seth Taylor, a watchmaker and jeweller in Stanstead, Quebec in 1867. It was unveiled at the Stanstead Fall Fair that year. The vehicle was crashed into a creek shortly thereafter.

View attachment 2238

Snip rediscovered in the 1950...

The vehicle lay disassembled in a barn where the wood from the carriage body and wheels had rotted away; it was discovered in the 1950s and was purchased and later restored by American collector Richard Stewart. In 1983, it was purchased from Stewart by the Canada Science and Technology Museum in Ottawa, where it has remained since.[1] The original brass-work around the cylinders and the oil caps were found to be in "fantastic condition", but the boiler has been replaced two times.

LINK: https://www.cobblebeachconcours.com/1867-henry-seth-taylor-steam-bug

LINK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Seth_Taylor_steam_buggy

Absolutely no way could any nation in the 1860s develop a practical self propelled vehicle let alone an armoured in the 1860s. Armoured vehicles developed when they actually developed for a reason. That reason is it takes time to develop reliable engines and transmission systems.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Actually while Ford hated Jews he was not anti-Semetic.

I'm sorry kirky, but that appears to be oxymoronic. Do I have to source Ford's newspaper...to start...

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

I'm sorry kirky, but that appears to be oxymoronic. Do I have to source Ford's newspaper...to start...

No it doesn't. Ford hated Jews but not Palestinian Arabs. How is that oxymoronic?
Kirk's Raiders

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Henry Ford's anti-Semitic views echoed the fears and assumptions of many Americans in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Anti-Semitism in America saw a change in expression and virulence when increased immigration from Europe brought millions of Jews to the U.S. during Ford's childhood in the latter half of the 19th century. It reached its peak during the mid-1920s: a time when Ku Klux Klanmembership had reached four million, Prohibition restricted alcohol consumption, and discriminatory immigration policies were enacted favoring immigrants from northern and western Europe over other parts of the world.

A close friend recalled a camping trip in 1919 during which Ford lectured a group around the campfire. He "attributes all evil to Jews or to the Jewish capitalists," the friend wrote in his diary. "The Jews caused the war, the Jews caused the outbreak of thieving and robbery all over the country, the Jews caused the inefficiency of the navy…"

In 1918, Henry Ford purchased his hometown newspaper, The Dearborn Independent. A year and a half later, he began publishing a series of articles that claimed a vast Jewish conspiracy was infecting America. The series ran in the following 91 issues. Ford bound the articles into four volumes titled "The International Jew," and distributed half a million copies to his vast network of dealerships and subscribers. The rhetoric was not unusual for its content, as much as its scope. As one of the most famous men in America, Henry Ford legitimized ideas that otherwise may have been given little authority.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryford-antisemitism/

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Henry Ford's anti-Semitic views echoed the fears and assumptions of many Americans in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Anti-Semitism in America saw a change in expression and virulence when increased immigration from Europe brought millions of Jews to the U.S. during Ford's childhood in the latter half of the 19th century. It reached its peak during the mid-1920s: a time when Ku Klux Klanmembership had reached four million, Prohibition restricted alcohol consumption, and discriminatory immigration policies were enacted favoring immigrants from northern and western Europe over other parts of the world.

A close friend recalled a camping trip in 1919 during which Ford lectured a group around the campfire. He "attributes all evil to Jews or to the Jewish capitalists," the friend wrote in his diary. "The Jews caused the war, the Jews caused the outbreak of thieving and robbery all over the country, the Jews caused the inefficiency of the navy…"

In 1918, Henry Ford purchased his hometown newspaper, The Dearborn Independent. A year and a half later, he began publishing a series of articles that claimed a vast Jewish conspiracy was infecting America. The series ran in the following 91 issues. Ford bound the articles into four volumes titled "The International Jew," and distributed half a million copies to his vast network of dealerships and subscribers. The rhetoric was not unusual for its content, as much as its scope. As one of the most famous men in America, Henry Ford legitimized ideas that otherwise may have been given little authority.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryford-antisemitism/

Which doesn't negate what I stated. I know Ford hated Jews on the other hand Ford was not an anti Semite or anti immigrant since he imported Palestinian Arabs to work in his factories. One can hate Jews but not Arabs. Arab's are semites and Arabs and Jews have been marrying each other for ever and it's far from rare even in Israel for Jewish woman to be impregnated by Arab men but not the other way around at least it's rare.
I am not arguing Ford was a good and noble man just that Ford was not an anti Semite he was anti Jewish but not anti Arab. Even the SS had Arabic troops .
Kirk's Raiders

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Even the SS had Arabic troops

Uh... duh.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Henry Ford's anti-Semitic views echoed the fears and assumptions of many Americans in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Anti-Semitism in America saw a change in expression and virulence when increased immigration from Europe brought millions of Jews to the U.S. during Ford's childhood in the latter half of the 19th century. It reached its peak during the mid-1920s: a time when Ku Klux Klanmembership had reached four million, Prohibition restricted alcohol consumption, and discriminatory immigration policies were enacted favoring immigrants from northern and western Europe over other parts of the world.

A close friend recalled a camping trip in 1919 during which Ford lectured a group around the campfire. He "attributes all evil to Jews or to the Jewish capitalists," the friend wrote in his diary. "The Jews caused the war, the Jews caused the outbreak of thieving and robbery all over the country, the Jews caused the inefficiency of the navy…"

In 1918, Henry Ford purchased his hometown newspaper, The Dearborn Independent. A year and a half later, he began publishing a series of articles that claimed a vast Jewish conspiracy was infecting America. The series ran in the following 91 issues. Ford bound the articles into four volumes titled "The International Jew," and distributed half a million copies to his vast network of dealerships and subscribers. The rhetoric was not unusual for its content, as much as its scope. As one of the most famous men in America, Henry Ford legitimized ideas that otherwise may have been given little authority.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryford-antisemitism/

See Michigan Radios article " Why so many Arab Americans in Michigan". There was a sizable Arab worker population at Henry Ford's first automobile plant at Highland Park in Detroit. Latter the plant was moved to Dearborn, Michigan which now has the largest per capita Arab population in the US.
There is a story or legend that Henry Ford told a merchant sailor from Yemen that he would pay workers $5 a day which circa 1915 was a lot of money. Ford may or may not of told that sailor anything but Arabs flocked to work at Ford and Ford hired them and by contemporary standards that was a good paying job. Ford wasn't eager to hire African Americans. Perhaps his Son did hire African Americans in large numbers after Henry Ford died.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Uh... duh.

The SS didn't have Jewish troops so the Nazis could make a distinction between Jews and Arabs . It's not a difference based on DNA but on prejudice. Maybe the term " Anti Semite" doesn't always apply to bigots.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[O' Be Joyful]

See Michigan Radios article " Why so many Arab Americans in Michigan". There was a sizable Arab worker population at Henry Ford's first automobile plant at Highland Park in Detroit. Latter the plant was moved to Dearborn, Michigan which now has the largest per capita Arab population in the US.
There is a story or legend that Henry Ford told a merchant sailor from Yemen that he would pay workers $5 a day which circa 1915 was a lot of money. Ford may or may not of told that sailor anything but Arabs flocked to work at Ford and Ford hired them and by contemporary standards that was a good paying job. Ford wasn't eager to hire African Americans. Perhaps his Son did hire African Americans in large numbers after Henry Ford died.
Kirk's Raiders

I have read biographies upon Ford, perhaps you should delve more deeply into the subject. I have nothing further to add as this is futile.

 

[Jim Klag]

Which doesn't negate what I stated. I know Ford hated Jews on the other hand Ford was not an anti Semite or anti immigrant since he imported Palestinian Arabs to work in his factories. One can hate Jews but not Arabs. Arab's are semites and Arabs and Jews have been marrying each other for ever and it's far from rare even in Israel for Jewish woman to be impregnated by Arab men but not the other way around at least it's rare.
I am not arguing Ford was a good and noble man just that Ford was not an anti Semite he was anti Jewish but not anti Arab. Even the SS had Arabic troops .
Kirk's Raiders

Sorry, but Hitler and Ford were anti semites. Hitler stated plainly that he was an anti semite and I'm pretty sure that didn't include Arabs. One can be antisemitic without hating all descendants of the original twelve tribes. For several millenia antisemitic has meant hatred of Jews. Two of my best friends are Christian Arabs and they make no bones about their antisemitism. Even Semitic people who hate Jews are antisemitic. Get over it.

 

[O' Be Joyful]

How Nazis courted the Islamic world during WWII – DW – 11/13/2017

Tens of thousands of Muslims fought for the Nazis in World War Two. DW spoke with historian David Motadel about whether pragmatism or anti-Semitism drove Adolf Hitler's overtures and why some Muslim leaders backed him.

www.dw.com