I Need Suggestion on General Robert E. Lee's Strategic Decisions

[emma1029]

Hey guys!

I have been obsessing over the Civil War lately, especially General Robert E. Lee's leadership and battle strategies. The Battle of Gettysburg is a particular fascination – even a brilliant mind like Lee made some head-scratching decisions there. Historians keep debating it, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts too!

What do you think might have been behind Lee's moves at Gettysburg? Were there hidden pressures or limitations we don't always consider? And how do you think Lee's personality and leadership style factored into his choices?
I also check this: https://www.jggscivilwartalk.online/index.php?threads/how-civil-war-weather-snowflakeforecasting-changed-future-conflicts.7944/ But I have not found any solution. could anyone guide me about this?

Hit me with your insights and theories! Let's get a good discussion going.

 

[5fish]

Were there hidden pressures or limitations we don't always consider?

Lee's health and he had a health scare in April of 1863... At the Battle of Gettysburg, his health was weighing on him. I argue he feared his death would dome the Confederate cause so he took a hopeless risk. I think he was ill during the battle because on day two he never left his headquarters and never rode the lines... I argued, he thought this was his last campaign and Gettysburg his last battle... He offered to resign to President Davis weeks following the Battle of Gettysburg...

 

[diane]

I think Lee's health was an issue in other battles as well. After Gettysburg he did have a rare opportunity to beat Grant, who had left a gap in his lines, but Lee had bowel issues and couldn't get out of bed. Just as the Confederate army was about to enter Maryland for Antietam, Traveller disabled Lee - he spooked and Lee broke both hands trying to catch him. (Traveller was a character - Stuart was always bringing Lee horses, hoping to bring one who would stand the noise of combat better...Lee wouldn't part with Traveller!)

The weather is an interesting factor as well - good note, @emma1029 . The heat was particularly hard on both armies, then there was a veritable flood immediately after the battle. There's an idea that the extremely heavy artillery fire sort of 'seeded' the clouds - it happened many times after very heavy battles. I don't know of any commanders on either side who used the weather to their advantage except N B Forrest at Brice's Crossroads. He was counting on the Mississippi heat and humidity to do a good deal of his work on the Union soldiers...and it did!

 

[5fish]

And how do you think Lee's personality and leadership style factored into his choices?

Lee was an autocrat and more so after General Jackson's death. I never like a council war so he just made his decision solely. He did allow Longstreet to decline to continue the attack... Longstreet implies he was against Pickett's charge but refuses to continue his attack... He and Longstreet rode to pick the next spot to attack which became Pickett's charge... Longstreet was against Pickett's charge why did Lee not listen to him when selecting the new place... Gettysburg is the only place where Lee second-guesses his original plans...

 

[5fish]

What do you think might have been behind Lee's moves at Gettysburg?

Lee did not want to fight at Gettysburg. He chose to continue the fight at Gettysburg. He planned this campaign for weeks he had Jackson's best map-making working with him. Lee planned everything to reach Carlisle Barracks resupply and defeat the Union army in their backyard. I argue he already had the place where he wanted to meet and defeat the Union army but never happened. Gettysburg was a mistake why Lee gave up on his original plans to fight a superior force in the superior position. He could have disengaged and continued his plans... Why? hubris or desperation?

He was recovering from an infection and a heart attack and within weeks of those events, he was marching through mountains. When you start getting above sea level a bad heart struggles to work correctly... We see a sickly desperate man trying desperately to win the war in his last act...

 

[diane]

Lee did not want to fight at Gettysburg. He chose to continue the fight at Gettysburg. He planned this campaign for weeks he had Jackson's best map-making working with him. Lee planned everything to reach Carlisle Barracks resupply and defeat the Union army in their backyard. I argue he already had the place where he wanted to meet and defeat the Union army but never happened. Gettysburg was a mistake why Lee gave up on his original plans to fight a superior force in the superior position. He could have disengaged and continued his plans... Why? hubris or desperation?

He was recovering from an infection and a heart attack and within weeks of those events, he was marching through mountains. When you start getting above sea level a bad heart struggles to work correctly... We see a sickly desperate man trying desperately to win the war in his last act...

Lee gave up on his original plans because of Meade! He had plans, too. He was also a Pennsylvanian, and his state was being invaded. He wouldn't have chosen the Gettysburg site, either, but Lee was there and Meade engaged the enemy where he found him. Meade was the commander who was in a real bind - he hadn't known until a few days before the battle that Hooker had been relieved and he was now in charge. In fact, when the messenger arrived in the dead of night with a note from Lincoln, Meade thought he was being arrested!

I think it is a critical point about Jeb Stuart - not that he was absent but that he was prevented from returning. He had vital intelligence about enemy movements that Lee needed in the worst way, but Stuart bumped into the redoubtable Hancock and his troops. He had to take the long way home! When he did engage with Union forces, Jubal Early was only about 5 miles away and heard the cannon fire. He might have taken the time to see what that was all about, and thus been able to bring Stuart to Lee in time. But, Old Jube just kept going!

There may be something to health issues and Lee wanting to complete a victory that would either win the war or gain international support for the Confederacy, as Trenton had done for Washington during the Revolution. Lee had indeed had a heart attack, which his doctors had dismissed as rheumatism, and sometimes he would say, "I am too old!" Longstreet thought there was something wrong with Lee's decision making processes - he was short tempered and more stubborn than usual. Longstreet even attempted to change Lee's battle plan at a war council, in front of all the other officers. Even if he had been right, it was not the time or place to do that. Lee could not allow a subordinate officer to override his authority in front of all other officers.

As Bruce Catton said, the stars in their courses fought against Lee at Gettysburg.

 

[jgoodguy]

As Bruce Catton said, the stars in their courses fought against Lee at Gettysburg.

IMHO those stars fought for him before.

 

[5fish]

Stress: it is something not talk about during the Civil War. We know soldiers will break down sooner or later like Gen. William Rosecrans at Chickamauga... There was A.P. Hill had moments were he could lead his men because of a mysterious illness. History claims he had STD's but what about stress, depression and anxiety... I remember rightly there were times Ewell near the end of the war could not lead his men because of a mysterious illness. I would not be surprised if Lee had a break down during the Battle of Gettysburg. He never left the field always stay with or near his men. I would not be surprised if he suffered from depression, anxiety or had a moment of mania at Gettysburg... Now, think, he had a health scare and he push for the invasion of of the North which many people did not support namely Longstreet, who wanted to support the Western army. This campaign was all on Lee's shoulders and it had to produce... Stressful especially, if you are meeting you opponent before you plan to fight him... He sees his plans slowly melting away...

 

[diane]

Stress: it is something not talk about during the Civil War. We know soldiers will break down sooner or later like Gen. William Rosecrans at Chickamauga... There was A.P. Hill had moments were he could lead his men because of a mysterious illness. History claims he had STD's but what about stress, depression and anxiety... I remember rightly there were times Ewell near the end of the war could not lead his men because of a mysterious illness. I would not be surprised if Lee had a break down during the Battle of Gettysburg. He never left the field always stay with or near his men. I would not be surprised if he suffered from depression, anxiety or had a moment of mania at Gettysburg... Now, think, he had a health scare and he push for the invasion of of the North which many people did not support namely Longstreet, who wanted to support the Western army. This campaign was all on Lee's shoulders and it had to produce... Stressful especially, if you are meeting you opponent before you plan to fight him... He sees his plans slowly melting away...

A P Hill is one of my favorites - he eventually became one of Lee's close confidants as well...everybody else was dead. But Hill was a very capable general if he could avoid impulsiveness. That was his big failing. James Robertson, who wrote an excellent bio of Hill, said he thought Hill's illness was not STD but the lingering effects of yellow fever. He'd contracted that while serving in Florida during the Seminole Wars. One of the long term effects of that disease is kidney failure, which was what Hill had by the time Petersburg came around. He may have had the beginnings of this fatal illness at Gettysburg. The STD thing came about due to his fiancée's family not wanting her to marry him. Somebody got them his medical records so they could show her a little something. So...she married McClellan!

Stress would be everybody's problem but I don't think Lee had any mental health issues, certainly no breakdown. Sherman did - he was wandering around a field with a pistol looking for a place to shoot himself when they threw the butterfly net over him. He took a vacation and was fine thereafter. Lee was well aware of the importance of his campaign in Pennsylvania but he was somebody who could handle that kind of pressure. I think he was mentally stable but had not recovered from the heart problems. Gettysburg was a pretty serious loss, which is why he told Jefferson Davis he had better get a younger man for the job and he (Lee) would take up a rocking chair on his front porch. Quite often Davis was not all that bright about who he gave a job to and who he took one away from, but he was smart enough to keep Lee on. I don't see another Confederate general who could have fought Grant as long as Lee did.

 

[5fish]

Let's talk about Anderson Div. when he came to the field early Lee told him to bivouac... You can say Lee thought Ewell could clear Cemetery Hill but he was not able to. I can argue Lee had used Anderson Div. he could have cleared Howard off Cemetery Hill... The next day Anderson was worked into Confederate line... I argue Lee would have been bold he could have won the battle of Gettysburg on day one, forcing Meade to retreat to his Pike Creek Line... but Lee was prudent by keeping Anderson in reserve...