How the Good war went bad

[Kirk's Raider's]

Your comment reads as, carrying water for Obama. He was President for 8 yrs. If he wanted out of Afghanistan, he could've made it happen, period.

Interesting you mention the US lives lost. As a fellow Military Dad, I understand. As I type this post, I have a son in Afghanistan. Although, my point is... more US service members lost their lives in Afghanistan, with Obama as their CIC, than W & Trump combined. By a long shot. It's not even close.


Trump just got a peace deal negotiated, & is going to withdraw.

Should Obama of withdrawn earlier is a valid point. Obama may have had reason to believe if the Taliban won then the Taliban would give sanctuary to such groups as Al Quedea and ISIS. We absolutely don't know if that willt or will not occur.
It is certainly possible when we leave the Taliban could even break up into factions and one faction could give sanctuary to the above groups.
Then again there may not be much we can do about it.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Yes, both military forays were in the long term major debacles. It's obvious we and the world did not have the heart to win the war but the some rural mountain people had the heart to win. You should ask , why the Afghans could not put an army in the field in 18 years with the will to right.. It reminds me of South Vietnam for they could not put an army in the field with the will to fight.

We need to ask in 18 years, we could not win the Afghan people over to our side. There was something wrong with our message to them.

We need to go... If the Afghan did not want the Taliban, they would have turned on them but they never did.

We could have just paid each Afghan a few thousand a year and I bet there would have been no fighting. It would have been cheaper.



You know this is one time I am with Trump...

I can definitely relate to you wanting your son out of Afganistsn . Obviously withdrawal from Afghanistan isn't going to be a major campaign issue or affect this year's election to a significant degree.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Wehrkraftzersetzer]

there are no good wars maybe necessary but never good

 

[5fish]

the Taliban won then the Taliban would give sanctuary to such groups as Al Quedea and ISIS.

No, they will not... They will secure their own aims first. I guess there will be another civil war among the tribes once we leave and some tribal leader will rise to power. I say just keep the CIA there causing strife backing one tribe and then backing another tribe and never let the nation know peace... The Afghan tribes will care less about these terrorist groups until their own issues are settled... so just have the CIA keep them at each other throats forever...

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

No, they will not... They will secure their own aims first. I guess there will be another civil war among the tribes once we leave and some tribal leader will rise to power. I say just keep the CIA there causing strife backing one tribe and then backing another tribe and never let the nation know peace... The Afghan tribes will care less about these terrorist groups until their own issues are settled... so just have the CIA keep them at each other throats forever...

Predicting the future is a risky business. Suffice to say since at least the Vietnam War the US has reputation for being beatable. The US withdrawal from Afghanistan will definitely inspire various groups that the US can be beaten.
I wouldn't count on the CIA to do anything right.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Tom]

What happened to the Reagan doctrine?- Get-in-and-get-out with a well defined exit strategy.

I thought I would never hear the phrase nation building ever again. I was wrong.

 

[5fish]

The US withdrawal from Afghanistan will definitely inspire various groups that the US can be beaten.

I disagree... Groups do not think we are beatable...

 

[5fish]

I thought I would never hear the phrase nation building ever again. I was wrong.

If you break it, you have an obligation to fix it...

 

[Wehrkraftzersetzer]

I disagree... Groups do not think we are beatable...

even if You were right they will try it

 

[Wehrkraftzersetzer]

If you break it, you have an obligation to fix it...

well by bringing in (to the USA) all the refugees You did produce by bombing the country?

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

I disagree... Groups do not think we are beatable...

I don't know about that . Bin Laden cited Vietnam has an example where the US was beaten. The US was also forced out of Lebanon, Iraq and now Afganistsn . It's not like terrorists can't read and understand history.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

What happened to the Reagan doctrine?- Get-in-and-get-out with a well defined exit strategy.

I thought I would never hear the phrase nation building ever again. I was wrong.

Such has Lebanon in the 1980s?
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

well by bringing in (to the USA) all the refugees You did produce by bombing the country?

Not if Trump gets reelected which is definitely a possibility.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

NBC News as a good online article "US intelligence not persuaded that the Taliban will uphold the peace agreement". The article notes that Al Quedea leadership marries woman from Taliban leaders families. US Intel is highly doubtful the Taliban won't give sanctuary to Al Quedea and ISIS.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Wehrkraftzersetzer]

NBC News as a good online article "US intelligence not persuaded that the Taliban will uphold the peace agreement". The article notes that Al Quedea leadership marries woman from Taliban leaders families. US Intel is highly doubtful the Taliban won't give sanctuary to Al Quedea and ISIS.
Kirk's Raiders

deal

 

[5fish]

NBC News as a good online article "US intelligence not persuaded that the Taliban will uphold the peace agreement". The article notes that Al Quedea leadership marries woman from Taliban leaders families. US Intel is highly doubtful the Taliban won't give sanctuary to Al Quedea and ISIS.
Kirk's Raiders

I did not see this but let's understand the Taliban are isolationist. They have no interest going beyond thier borders. ISIS and Al Quedea have greater ambitions of Islamic revolution. I would bet once the Taliban consolidate their control they will ensure those two groups are gone.

They do not want our drones flighting over thier nation forever and they do not want us to return.

If this war ends a lot of people in the military industrial complex will need to find a new sugar daddy... I can tale our military industrial complex does not want this war or any of our wars with Islam to end. It's bad for business....

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

deal

If it was only that simple. The US has very rarely fought on its own since 1917. It's not like Al Quedea and ISIS are only pissed off at the US and Israel. Germany actually sent troops to Afganhistan and provided weaponry to the Kurds to fight ISIS plus flew reconnaissance flights over Syria to support the Kurds.
There is a religious war between Islam has interpreted by the holy warriors aka Martyers of Islam vs anybody else who says different.
It is far from certain who will win. Demographically it doesn't look for the West.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

I did not see this but let's understand the Taliban are isolationist. They have no interest going beyond thier borders. ISIS and Al Quedea have greater ambitions of Islamic revolution. I would bet once the Taliban consolidate their control they will ensure those two groups are gone.

They do not want our drones flighting over thier nation forever and they do not want us to return.

If this war ends a lot of people in the military industrial complex will need to find a new sugar daddy... I can tale our military industrial complex does not want this war or any of our wars with Islam to end. It's bad for business....

Not so sure if the Taliban are isolationist. President Bush gave the Taliban plenty of time to turn in Bin Laden and friends. The Taliban basically told Bush to shove it. The fortunes of the IMC depend on who is elected president. If it's Biden or Trump no problems on making a profit. If it's Sanders big problem.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[5fish]

Not so sure if the Taliban are isolationist.

The Taliban that Bush fought is not the Taliban of today. They are more pragmatic... They want to govern... There is a point were to spend more good money after bad has to come to an end... Its time for the Afghan government to stand on their own with lots of aid from us... and they will fail ...

Way back when we first went in there was a Russian vet. from their time in Afghanistan and I will paraphrase him...

He said, " Afghans know how to die but they can be brought"

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

The Taliban that Bush fought is not the Taliban of today. They are more pragmatic... They want to govern... There is a point were to spend more good money after bad has to come to an end... Its time for the Afghan government to stand on their own with lots of aid from us... and they will fail ...

Way back when we first went in there was a Russian vet. from their time in Afghanistan and I will paraphrase him...

He said, " Afghans know how to die but they can be brought"

Time will tell but the NBC article noted the fact that the leadership of the Taliban is closely linked by marriage to Al Quedea.
Both the Soviets and the Americans tried to buy loyalty in Afganhistan and both failed.
Kirk's Raiders