Grover Cleveland

[Jim Klag]

My understanding was he was a sheriff, not a hangsman, but the guy who was supposed to pull the lever lost his nerve at the last moment, and Cleveland stepped in.

The show must go on!

 

[diane]

My understanding was he was a sheriff, not a hangsman, but the guy who was supposed to pull the lever lost his nerve at the last moment, and Cleveland stepped in.

Executioners give me the willies because they're an eye lash away from being who they execute! Certain mind-set that's similar. Generals are that way, too.

Does anybody know if it's true that U S Grant and Grover Cleveland were some sort of cousins? I've heard that but can't find suitable verification either way!

 

[Jim Klag]

Executioners give me the willies because they're an eye lash away from being who they execute! Certain mind-set that's similar. Generals are that way, too.

Does anybody know if it's true that U S Grant and Grover Cleveland were some sort of cousins? I've heard that but can't find suitable verification either way!

6th cousins once removed

Family relationship of Ulysses S. Grant and Grover Cleveland via John Porter.

Ancestor chart showing how Ulysses S. Grant is the 6th cousin 1 time removed to Grover Cleveland via John Porter.

famouskin.com

 

[Jim Klag]

I have never quite understood "removed."

 

[diane]

I have never quite understood "removed."

In our languages - all three of them I speak - we can't introduce somebody without saying what their relationship is. Since a guy can have as many wives as he can take care of, there's special terms for this cousin from that wife - and the assorted relations that go with that wife and her family. We're trying to restore the family histories - got so many people killed and dispersed to a reservation far, far away in another galaxy that we lost the threads!

 

[Matt McKeon]

Executioners give me the willies because they're an eye lash away from being who they execute! Certain mind-set that's similar. Generals are that way, too.

Does anybody know if it's true that U S Grant and Grover Cleveland were some sort of cousins? I've heard that but can't find suitable verification either way!

Executioners give me the willies too. There is an interesting film about Alfred Pierrepoint, the British hangsman through much of the mid 20th century. He was briefly famous for executing Nazi War criminals for the British Army right after the war. He executed hundreds of people, including someone he knew from "private life." He ran a pub: hanging people was part time work. Several of his well known "clients" were supposed to have said, "I always wanted to meet you, Mr. Pierrepoint, but not like this." He claimed it was never actually said to him. I believe him. He executed people very swiftly, in a few seconds, none of this sadistic slow march up a platform, or ritual of last words.

 

[diane]

Executioners give me the willies too. There is an interesting film about Alfred Pierrepoint, the British hangsman through much of the mid 20th century. He was briefly famous for executing Nazi War criminals for the British Army right after the war. He executed hundreds of people, including someone he knew from "private life." He ran a pub: hanging people was part time work. Several of his well known "clients" were supposed to have said, "I always wanted to meet you, Mr. Pierrepoint, but not like this." He claimed it was never actually said to him. I believe him. He executed people very swiftly, in a few seconds, none of this sadistic slow march up a platform, or ritual of last words.

I watched a little piece a long while ago on an elderly French executioner who became very religious. Said he'd seen off over 500 people. He'd believed he was simply the human hand of God in dealing out justice, especially when he thought about what crime it was they'd done. He said his new-found religious convictions gave him a lot to reflect on but he still had no regrets.

 

[Matt McKeon]

I watched a little piece a long while ago on an elderly French executioner who became very religious. Said he'd seen off over 500 people. He'd believed he was simply the human hand of God in dealing out justice, especially when he thought about what crime it was they'd done. He said his new-found religious convictions gave him a lot to reflect on but he still had no regrets.

Pierrepoint made a splash after he retired by blandly stating he didn't think executions were a deterrent.

 

[Matt McKeon]

This thread took a morbid turn

 

[diane]

This thread took a morbid turn

Well, Halloween is just around the corner!

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Well, Halloween is just around the corner!

Bring out the bowl of peeled grapes/eyeballs and candy corn.

And the pimpled pumpkin jack o' lanterns.

 

[Joshism]

Grover Cleveland got in some hot water when there was a request for some captured Confederate battleflags to be returned to their home states because they were rotting away in a War Department closet. The war department said sure and Cleveland said "eh, whatever." Then the GAR got wind of this and Union veterans got so angry that, even after Cleveland rescinded permission (before any flags had actually been transferred) he decided he should cancel his scheduled appearance at a GAR event a few months later.

 

[Joshism]

Cleveland's political views are curious.

1. He recommended Congress pass legislation to empower the new Department of Labor to handle the "Arbitration of Disputes Between Laboring Men and Employers."

2. He signed a bill creating the first federal regulatory commission (which he must have agreed with - he was quite the veto-happy executive when he didn't), which affected railroads and interstate commerce.

3. He vetoed a bill to that would have provided federal assistance through the Department of Agriculture to Texas farmers hit hard by a drought. His reasoning, quoting Jeffers (pg 194): "[Cleveland wrote that he disagreed with the idea] "that the power and duty of the General Government ought to be expended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit." [He went on to write that] "Though the people support the Government, the Government should not support the people."

 

[5fish]

Cleveland's political views are curious.

Grover Cleveland and the Great Confederate Battle Flags Furor

During the Civil War, the flags carried by military units had intense emotional significance for the men who fought and died under them. The flags not only symbolized the nation or state, but al…

almostchosenpeople.wordpress.com

He bombed on this one... He wanted to return captured Confederate battle flags.... Costing him the election...

During the Civil War, the flags carried by military units had intense emotional significance for the men who fought and died under them. The flags not only symbolized the nation or state, but also stood for the units that carried them and the men who bled in their defense. At the end of the War hundreds of captured Confederate battle flags were held by the Federal government and the victorious Union states. Objects of pride for the men who had fought for the Union, their treatment as war trophies by the victorious North was a sore point in the vanquished South.

snip...

In 1887 the Secretary of War mentioned to Cleveland that the Adjutant General of the Army had suggested that the return of the battle flags to the Southern states would be a graceful gesture that would be appreciated in the South. No doubt thinking that after more than two decades wartime passions had subsided, Cleveland ordered the return of the captured flags to the Southern governors. This was a major blunder.

snip... it cost him the election 1888...

The most powerful political organization in the land at this time was the Grand Army of the Republic, the huge association of Civil War veterans. They reacted with white-hot fury and besieged the White House with bitter letters and telegrams. Republican politicians swiftly condemned Cleveland. Shocked by the whirlwind he had created, the normally stubborn Cleveland swiftly backed down. Too late. In 1888 Cleveland lost a very narrow election, indeed he won the popular vote by 100,000, and the Union veteran vote cost him several crucial Northern states in the electoral college.

Read the article to get the full story...

 

[5fish]

Here is another on the story... more details... It really a story about Cleveland vs the G.A.R. ...

Grover Cleveland and the Confederate Flags

wesclark.com

snip...

Notwithstanding the passage of time, the Civil War remained vivid in the national memory. Future Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, who was three times wounded as a Union officer, would later write that "our hearts were touched with fire." There was a tremendous pride in both armies, and much of it was focused on a soldier's own regiment. A unit's flag was to be defended to the death, and flags of the enemy - often seized in hand-to-hand combat - were the most prized contraband.

snip...

Still, agitation over Cleveland's vetoes would pale by comparison to that over his proposal to return the rebel flags. Following his meeting with the President, Secretary Endicott sent circular letters to Southern governors, indicating the government's willingness to return the flags. The first Northern politician to see political potential in Cleveland's proposal was Governor Joseph B. Foraker of Ohio, who faced a tough campaign for reelection. "No rebel flags will be surrendered while I am governor," telegraphed "Fire Engine Joe," ignoring the fact that Cleveland's order applied only to those flags gathering dust in Washington. "The patriotic people of this state are shocked and indignant beyond anything I can express."

snip...

When Cleveland ran for election the following year, he was defeated by Benjamin Harrison despite a margin of nearly 100,000 in the popular vote. Clearly, not everyone had succumbed to the waving of the "bloody shirt" by Foraker and his cohorts. Still, while there were no reliable polls a century ago, it was conceded that the veteran's vote had gone strongly against Cleveland, in part as a result of the battle of the flags.

 

[rittmeister]

I have never quite understood "removed."

i wonder whether you guys and chairman kim have the same definition of removed family

 

[O' Be Joyful]

i wonder whether you guys and chairman kim have the same definition of removed family

I could not find the cannon shot vid. but..

 

[diane]

Underrated movie, that! Too funny...

 

[Jim Klag]

Underrated movie, that! Too funny...

James Garner was underrated as a comic actor. Both of his "Support" movies were fabulous.

 

[rittmeister]

James Garner was underrated as a comic actor. Both of his "Support" movies were fabulous.

really? as to the other i thought otherwise