Confederacy Bicycle Infantry saves the day...

5fish

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You know the bike was around during our civil war in different form but still a bicycle. Like I say, if the confederacy spend a little money on R & D they could have had Bicycle infantry like ones in World War One... They would have move faster than regular infantry. Remember Forrest rule of act: "Get there first with the most men." The bicycle could have done it with ease... Think of Gen. Stuart leading thousand of bikes into battle... or Gen. Gordon leading his regiment of bikes into battle...

.

Snip... A German Baron gets credit for the first bike...

On 12 June 1817, a crowd gathered along the best road in Mannheim, Germany to watch Baron Karl von Drais demonstrate his newest invention: the 'draisienne', a two-wheeled horseless vehicle propelled by its rider. Drais climbed on and set out for the Schwetzinger switch house, a strategic point along the postal route. Less than an hour later, he was back, having completed the 8-9 mile round trip in a quarter of the usual time. Two hundred years later, we salute Drais and his draisienne as a significant milestone on the long road of innovation leading to the bicycle of today.

Snip... the German uprising of 1848...

Johnson’s 'pedestrian curricle', patent #4321 dated 22 December 1818, was an improved draisienne. It was lighter, substituted metal for wood where possible, had larger more stable wooden wheels lined with iron, featured a crossbar dipped in the middle where the saddle sat, was more upright, and had a metal steering column. It could travel 9-10 miles per hour, making it one of the fastest vehicles on the road. Johnson introduced a ladies drop frame and a deluxe model hand painted to order.

A riding school opened near his Long Acre shop, and races were organised. The 'dandy horse' or 'hobby' as it became known was popular with young urban gentlemen, and even more popular with satirists. 'The Hobby-Horse Dealer', an 1819 print held in the British Museum (below), which compares buying a velocipede to assessing a horse, illustrates this vein of humour.

Drais’s original draisienne may have been a passing fad, but his design inspired further innovation, copycats included, with lasting influence
.

snip...

During the German Revolutions, 1848-9, Drais forfeited his title as Baron, becoming “Citizen Karl Drais.” Later, when Prussians forces reclaimed the region, revolutionary sympathisers were executed or committed to asylums, a fate Drais escaped only through the lobbying of his sister and cousin. Drais lived out his remaining years quietly and impoverished, having had his assets seized and reputation ruined in the aftermath of the failed revolution. He died penniless aged 66 on 10 December 1851. Drais’s inventions, his biographers reveal on www.karldrais.de, were forgotten or belittled by Baderian authorities keen on discrediting their political enemies.

Drais’s reputation was not restored until the Victorian cycling age. A commemorative plaque was installed on his house in Karlsruhe and German cyclists saw that his grave was protected. The Graphic, 4 May 1891 reported that “British Cyclists, who owe so much health and enjoyment to their machines, may like to hear of the honours just paid to the inventor of the bicycle, Baron Carl von Drais. [sic]…the Baron’s remains have been moved with much pomp from their neglected grave to a resting place in the new cemetery, where the bicyclists of the fatherland will erect a handsome monument.”
 

5fish

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Here in 1860 the peddle bikes...


snip... the peddle...


While Drais’s velocipede only enjoyed a brief stint in the spotlight before falling out of fashion—poet John Keats derided it as the “nothing of the day”—his early version continued to be improved upon across Europe. Beginning in the 1860s, several different French inventors including Pierre Lallement, Pierre Michaux and Ernest Michaux developed prototypes with pedals attached to the front wheel. These were the first machines to be called “bicycles,” but they were also known as “boneshakers” for their rough ride.

snip... rise of the modern bike...

While the penny-farthing helped bring bicycling into the mainstream, its four-foot-high saddle made it too dangerous for most to ride. That finally changed in 1885, when Englishman John Kemp Starley—the nephew of James Starley—perfected a “safety bicycle” design that featured equal-sized wheels and a chain drive. New developments in brakes and tires followed shortly, establishing a basic template for what would become the modern bicycle.
 

Mike12

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Well if you can show a logic that works... steam punk is not logic...
Oh!.. well... I could delete it . whatever you prefer... The Union had to Get somewhere. The Confederacy lost men every time they said they were invading. They needed punji sticks , world war 1 trench ideas, I found out why they attacked from the simulations, you got 3 times size army, no technology, its a very sad excuse... its like... confederates are the laser pen, and union is the cat trying to hit it?
 

5fish

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Bicycles at war... 19th century



Bicycle infantry are infantry soldiers who maneuver on (or, more often, between) battlefields using military bicycles in a form of foot drill called bike drill.[citation needed] The term dates from the late 19th century, when the "safety bicycle" became popular in Europe, the United States, and Australia. Historically, bicycles lessened the need for horses, fuel and vehicle maintenance. Though their use has waned over the years in many armies, they continue to be used in unconventional armies such as militias.

snip...

Numerous experiments were carried out in the late 19th century to determine the possible role of bicycles and cycling within military establishments, primarily because they can carry more equipment and travel longer distances than walking soldiers. The development of pneumatic tires coupled with shorter, sturdier frames in the late 19th century led military establishments to investigate their applicability.[1] To some extent, bicyclists took over the functions of dragoons, especially as messengers and scouts, substituting for horses in warfare.[2] Bicycle units or detachments were in existence by the end of the 19th century in most armies.

snip... Germans ...

During World War I cycle-mounted infantry, scouts, messengers and ambulance carriers were extensively used by all combatants. Italy used bicycles with the Bersaglieri (light infantry units) until the end of the war. German Army Jäger (light infantry) battalions each had a bicycle company (Radfahr-Kompanie) at the outbreak of the war, and additional units were raised during the war, bringing the total to 80 companies. A number of these were formed into eight Radfahr-Bataillonen (bicycle battalions). The British Army had cyclist companies in its divisions, and later two whole divisions became cyclists: 1st and 2nd Cyclist Divisions.

snip...

The first bicycles were introduced into the armed forces of several nations in the late 19th century; by the time of the start of World War I, all combatants were using them.[1] The German Army had 36 independent companies of bicycle infantry, a battalion of cyclists attached to every cavalry division, and an additional 10 reserve bicycle companies and 17 replacement crews. The Italian Army's Bersaglieri mountain troops were the first to use folding bikes. During World War II bicycles were introduced to paratroopers as a means to provide them with transportation following the landing.[2] The U.S. also used as general light transport, and for messenger duties.[3] Separate units of bicycle infantry existed in armies of many nations until the end of 20th century, it was not until 2003 that the Swiss Army reformed its last three Bicycle Infantry Regiments. In the late 1990s and early 2000s, there was a resurgence in the testing of all terrain and folding bikes, for use by infantry in battle and patrolling cities.[4]
 

Leftyhunter

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Bicycles at war... 19th century



Bicycle infantry are infantry soldiers who maneuver on (or, more often, between) battlefields using military bicycles in a form of foot drill called bike drill.[citation needed] The term dates from the late 19th century, when the "safety bicycle" became popular in Europe, the United States, and Australia. Historically, bicycles lessened the need for horses, fuel and vehicle maintenance. Though their use has waned over the years in many armies, they continue to be used in unconventional armies such as militias.

snip...

Numerous experiments were carried out in the late 19th century to determine the possible role of bicycles and cycling within military establishments, primarily because they can carry more equipment and travel longer distances than walking soldiers. The development of pneumatic tires coupled with shorter, sturdier frames in the late 19th century led military establishments to investigate their applicability.[1] To some extent, bicyclists took over the functions of dragoons, especially as messengers and scouts, substituting for horses in warfare.[2] Bicycle units or detachments were in existence by the end of the 19th century in most armies.

snip... Germans ...

During World War I cycle-mounted infantry, scouts, messengers and ambulance carriers were extensively used by all combatants. Italy used bicycles with the Bersaglieri (light infantry units) until the end of the war. German Army Jäger (light infantry) battalions each had a bicycle company (Radfahr-Kompanie) at the outbreak of the war, and additional units were raised during the war, bringing the total to 80 companies. A number of these were formed into eight Radfahr-Bataillonen (bicycle battalions). The British Army had cyclist companies in its divisions, and later two whole divisions became cyclists: 1st and 2nd Cyclist Divisions.

snip...

The first bicycles were introduced into the armed forces of several nations in the late 19th century; by the time of the start of World War I, all combatants were using them.[1] The German Army had 36 independent companies of bicycle infantry, a battalion of cyclists attached to every cavalry division, and an additional 10 reserve bicycle companies and 17 replacement crews. The Italian Army's Bersaglieri mountain troops were the first to use folding bikes. During World War II bicycles were introduced to paratroopers as a means to provide them with transportation following the landing.[2] The U.S. also used as general light transport, and for messenger duties.[3] Separate units of bicycle infantry existed in armies of many nations until the end of 20th century, it was not until 2003 that the Swiss Army reformed its last three Bicycle Infantry Regiments. In the late 1990s and early 2000s, there was a resurgence in the testing of all terrain and folding bikes, for use by infantry in battle and patrolling cities.[4]
So what army in the 1860s had per your last threads that argued for the practically of flying machines,self propelled armoured fighting vehicles and bicycles?
Maybe the reason no army used anything remotely resembling the above was they just weren't practical.
Also the Confedracy struggled just to maintain it's railroads which it quite could not could it build anything close to a viable fleet of armoured vessels.
Leftyhunter
 

Mike12

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Famine is quick, real, and deadly. Had you heard of the 7 million dead in Bengal in 1943? The Japanese pushed 2 million refugees there, halted their food trade primarily Burma, and 3 tidal waves caused fungus and flood to 90% of farm lands, dead by December 1943. For the life of me, I can't find the southern agricultural conference doctors I heard in class to credit for all this, hunger not starvation, "agricultural people" whatever. Anyone think of Scarlet O Hara and her carrot?
 

diane

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So what army in the 1860s had per your last threads that argued for the practically of flying machines,self propelled armoured fighting vehicles and bicycles?
Maybe the reason no army used anything remotely resembling the above was they just weren't practical.
Also the Confedracy struggled just to maintain it's railroads which it quite could not could it build anything close to a viable fleet of armoured vessels.
Leftyhunter
I'm just wondering how the bicycles of the day would do through the terrain most of the war was fought through. Not a lot a paved roadways. But who needs a bike when you've got cavalry?
 

5fish

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Maybe the reason no army used anything remotely resembling the above was they just weren't practical
Many of them have become stables of a modern military. If the Confederacy just had vision...
 

5fish

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World War One prove the bicycle could help in the trenches... If the confederacy had a little imagination and rubber tires...


By the time Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated in 1914 — coincidentally, on June 28, the same day that the 12th Tour de France began — cyclists were an accepted part of warfare

Snip...

But, by the 1880s, there were already hotly debated movements to use the cyclists as a sort of alternate mounted infantry. Mounted infantrymen rode horses like cavalry, but generally dismounted and fought on foot when they arrived at the battle. They could cover more ground and often acted as a vanguard, tying down enemy forces until their foot-bound brethren could arrive.

snip... They won contest...

In the late 1800s, cyclists took on challenges to prove their worth in battle. Bicycle infantry covered 40 miles a day with all their gear to prove they were more mobile, and messenger cyclists raced other signal soldiers working with flags and torches to prove who was faster. The cyclists won most of the competitions, and one messenger unit delivered from Washington, D.C. to Denver in just six days, covering approximately 1,700 miles while climbing 5,000 feet in altitude.

snip... a cyclist first British causality of the war...

As The Great War got underway, Allied governments rushed to increase the size of their cyclists corps. Reconnaissance cyclist John Parr, a 17-year-old who had lied about his age to join, was possibly Britain’s first casualty of the war, taking fire from German troops while relaying messages.

snip...

As the war ground on, Great Britain bought bicycles and trained troops to ride them, famously advertising that “bad teeth” were “no bar” to joining. Bicycle infantry units rode around the front, quickly reinforcing areas that had suffered unsustainable losses from German attacks or plussing up British positions for major attacks. Cyclists mounted coastal patrols and fought fires in areas raided by German aircraft.

And cyclists were added to standard units with even conventional infantry units getting a few cyclists to ride ahead and get orders, relaying them back to the unit so it could deploy effectively as it arrived. Eventually, even artillery units got cyclists, and some even experimented with towing the guns, especially machine guns, behind the bicycle
s
 

Mike12

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Are we confused about the American inferiority generally? The most famous CSS Alabama is an entirely paid, staffed, and constructed British Pirate Ship, the most successful military ship of the war, of Roll, Alabama, Roll. That's Alabama today talking about this, Roll Tide Roll.

Merrimack vs the Monitor gets attention. The Confederates quickly hollow the waterline hull of a ship called an ironclad with a single turret on top , and quickly surprise a handful of traditional wood and sails of the US navy.
 

Leftyhunter

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Many of them have become stables of a modern military. If the Confederacy just had vision...
If European armies didn't use all the advanced technology that the Confedrate Army could of used then there is a good reason why. The Confedrate Army did about as well as one could expect based on their circumstances. By West European standards both the Union and Confedrate Armies would be considered more less as decent second rate armies with the Union having the edge due to more and better artilery and logistics.
Leftyhunter
 

Leftyhunter

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Are we confused about the American inferiority generally? The most famous CSS Alabama is an entirely paid, staffed, and constructed British Pirate Ship, the most successful military ship of the war, of Roll, Alabama, Roll. That's Alabama today talking about this, Roll Tide Roll.

Merrimack vs the Monitor gets attention. The Confederates quickly hollow the waterline hull of a ship called an ironclad with a single turret on top , and quickly surprise a handful of traditional wood and sails of the US navy.
As the Orange Fuerer would say " I like ships that don't get sunk". The Alabama was not considered a pirate ship but a legitimate naval ship of a belligerent power. Confedrate naval ships were allowed docking privileges for up to 72 hours although sometimes the time period wasn't strictly observed. If the USN captured Confedrate sailors they would not be executed as they wore uniforms but they would be treated as prisoners of war .
Pirates can sell their booty and split the proceeds. CSN ships rarely if ever could dock in a Confedrate port and had no way of selling captured booty.
USN ships could take their booty to a Prize Court in the US and sell their booty and apportion it per a set formula.
True the CSS Virginia did have intialy sucess.
Keep up the good work of writing more lucid posts.
Leftyhunter
 

5fish

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the advanced technology that the Confedrate Army
You all know bicycles were used to beat our nation in a war in the 20th century. Yes, a bicycle used not for combat but for resupplying an army... In the Vietnam war the North Vietnamese used reinforced bikes to carry supplies down the famed Ho Chu Mein Trail to their troops. My point is if the Confederacy had just some ingenuity bikes could have won the war for them... In combat, resupplying and quick strike force along the trenches...

1613723031748.png

1613723056640.png

Its amazing a bike beat us in the Vietnam war. We dropped bombs after bombs on the Ho Chi Mein trail but we could not stop these reinforced bikes from doing their mission...

https://enemymilitaria.com/product/north-vietnamese-army-ho-chi-minh-trail-reinforced-bicycle/

snip...

The porters who pushed these down the trail were typically men but women also made the journey. Rice, ammunition, ordnance, uniforms, mail, canned food, small arms and all manner of military supplies were strapped on for the long journey South. The journey might have taken as long as six months.

snip...

The Ho Chi Minh Trial was the supply line running from North Vietnam to hundreds of supply bases in Laos, Cambodia and RVN. Before it was improved, with the exception of what individual soldiers carried on their backs and waists, 100% of the cargo sent to the South from Hanoi came on these bikes. After the HCM Trial was improved, Chinese and Russian made trucks carried increasingly more of the supply load but these reinforced bicycles were used all the way until Liberation in April 1975.
 

5fish

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The Vietnamese used the bikes to beat US and the French too... the link goes into more detail about bikes and Ho Chi Mein Trail... Determination!


snip...

This point may be best illustrated by a London newspaper report of October 3, 1967, that described a hearing before the United States Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator William Fulbright of Arkansas responded to a New York Times reporter’s testimony regarding the extensive use of bicycles by the Communist forces in Vietnam. The reporter, Harrison Salisbury, who had recently been in Hanoi, detailed for the committee how bicycles enabled the Viet Cong (VC) and regular North Vietnamese Army (NVA) to continually resupply their forces even under the most adverse conditions. Salisbury concluded his testimony with a strong assertion: “I literally believe that without bikes they’d have to get out of the war.

snip...

In contrast to the smirks and snickering, the stone-faced silence of the uniformed members of the U.S. military in attendance was revealing. They, along with their bosses in the Pentagon and in Vietnam, knew that the enemy’s employment of bicycles in the war in Southeast Asia was hugely significant to sustaining their war effort against the United States. It was no laughing matter. The bicycle had survived the most modern weapons in the American military arsenal.

snip... French... bike...

The contest for the base became a battle of logistics. The French grievously erred by underestimating the Viet Minh’s ability to bring up heavy artillery and supplies for their troops. They expected to face only mortars, not heavy long-range guns. But Giap was able to place 144 heavy artillery pieces—plus dozens of lesser caliber—around the doomed French post.

The key to the Viet Minh’s supply effort in this epic battle was a combination of transport modes—built around the largest military bicycle-transport feat in history. Although the Vietnamese used 600 Russian-made Molotova 2.5-ton trucks as well as sampans, ponies and some 200,000 porters carrying spine-breaking loads, the mainstay of their logistical network was composed of 60,000 tough bicycle-pushing men and women
.

Snip...

In their fight against the French—and later the Americans—the Vietnamese favored the French-made Peugeot bicycle, with the Czech-built Favorit their next bike of choice. One of the Favorits set a record, hauling a total of 100 tons in 1961-62

snip...

The carrying capacity for these modified two-wheelers ranged up to 600 pounds, with the average load being around 440 pounds, versus the 80- to 100-pound load that could be carried by a single porter. A record was set at Dien Bien Phu with a single bicycle carrying a load of 724 pounds. This achievement would be surpassed a decade later when one bicycle, or as the North Vietnamese called them, “steel horses,” carried 924 pounds along the entire Ho Chi Minh Trail in 1964.

snip... death...

Although French and U.S. airpower could not stanch the flow of supplies along the Ho Chi Minh Trail, the terrain nevertheless took its toll on the Viet Minh and later North Vietnamese porters and bicycle tenders. Seventy-two military cemeteries that line its route attest to the dangers nature posed in addition to human intervention. More cyclists and porters—estimates range from 10 to 20 percent—perished from disease, exhaustion, and attacks by tigers, elephants and bears than by bombs or bullets. They rested at the many relay stations on the Trail, which were really nothing more than clearings in the forest, and they were moved every few days to prevent the enemy from discovering them.
 

Leftyhunter

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You all know bicycles were used to beat our nation in a war in the 20th century. Yes, a bicycle used not for combat but for resupplying an army... In the Vietnam war the North Vietnamese used reinforced bikes to carry supplies down the famed Ho Chu Mein Trail to their troops. My point is if the Confederacy had just some ingenuity bikes could have won the war for them... In combat, resupplying and quick strike force along the trenches...

View attachment 5670

View attachment 5671

Its amazing a bike beat us in the Vietnam war. We dropped bombs after bombs on the Ho Chi Mein trail but we could not stop these reinforced bikes from doing their mission...

https://enemymilitaria.com/product/north-vietnamese-army-ho-chi-minh-trail-reinforced-bicycle/

snip...

The porters who pushed these down the trail were typically men but women also made the journey. Rice, ammunition, ordnance, uniforms, mail, canned food, small arms and all manner of military supplies were strapped on for the long journey South. The journey might have taken as long as six months.

snip...

The Ho Chi Minh Trial was the supply line running from North Vietnam to hundreds of supply bases in Laos, Cambodia and RVN. Before it was improved, with the exception of what individual soldiers carried on their backs and waists, 100% of the cargo sent to the South from Hanoi came on these bikes. After the HCM Trial was improved, Chinese and Russian made trucks carried increasingly more of the supply load but these reinforced bicycles were used all the way until Liberation in April 1975.
The Communist's beat the US and it's allies for many reasons but yes the North Vietnamese excelled at logistics considering they had to face many difficulties such has air strikes on the Hi Chi Minh Trail. However unless you can point to any army that used bicycles in the 1860s the argument you make about bicycles can not be taken seriously.
If the technology of bicycles wasn't well developed then so be it bicycles were just not practical.
Leftyhunter
 

5fish

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However unless you can point to any army that used bicycles in the 1860s the argument you make about bicycles can not be taken seriously.
My point of this is the technology was available to the Confederacy if they spend the energy in imagination and innovation and they could have created thier own warrior bikes.
 
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