Broken Churches... Slavery...

5fish

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I have been reading churches and our Civil War and it seems there a correlation between our National Churches breaking up over slavery and Nation falling into Civil War. It seems our nations major church congregations were fighting their own Civil War over slavery 20 years before our nations Civil War. By the mid-1840's most national Congregation had broken into Northern and Southern branches and had little to nothing to do with the other.

Here is a link to the short aritcle:

https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/broken-churches-broken-nation

1)
Baptists
Steps to Division

1839: Foreign Missions Board declares neutrality on slavery.

1840: The new American Baptist anti-Slavery Convention denounces slaveholding; Baptists in South threaten to stop giving to Baptist agencies.

1845: Home Missions Board refuses to appoint a Georgia slaveholder as missionary.

1845: Alabama Baptists ask Foreign Missions Board whether a slaveholder could be appointed as missionary; northern-controlled board answers no; southerners form new, separate Southern Baptist Convention.


North
Key leader: Francis Wayland, president of Brown University.

Key stands: Refusal to appoint slaveholders as missionaries; dislike of slavery; desire for strict congregational independence.


South
Key leaders: William B. Johnson, first president of the Convention. I.T. Tichenor, later leader of Home Mission Board.

Key stands: Freedom to carry on missionary work without regard to slavery issue; freedom “to promote slavery”; desire for centralized connections among churches.

2)

Presbyterians
Steps to Division

1837: “Old School” and “New School” Presbyterians split over theological issues. This precedes, and encourages, later full North—South division. Predicts one leader: “The Potomac will be dyed with blood.”

1857: Southern members (15,000) of New School become unhappy with increasing anti-slavery views and leave. Ultimately they join Old School, South.

1861: When war breaks out, the Old School splits along northern and southern lines. By 1870, divisions between Old School and New School are healed, but deep geographical divide will last for more than 100 years.


New School (strongest in North)
Key leaders: Lyman Beecher; Nathaniel W. Taylor; Henry Boynton Smith.

Key stands: Moderate interpretation of Calvinistic theology; openness to Charles Finney’s new revival techniques; openness to interdenominational alliances; inclination toward abolition.


Old School (strongest in South)
Key leaders: Archibald Alexander; Charles Hodge; Benjamin Morgan Palmer; James Henley Thornwell.

Key stands: Traditional Calvinistic theology; opposition to voluntary societies (that promote, for example, temperance and abolition) because these weaken local church; opposition to abolition.

3)

Methodists
Steps to Division

1836: anti-slavery activists present legislation at General Conference; slavery agreed to be evil but “modern abolitionism” flatly rejected.

1840: anti-slavery delegation fails to make slaveholding a discipline issue.

1843: 22 abolitionist ministers and 6,000 members leave and form new denomination—Wesleyan Methodist Church.

1844: Fierce debate at General Conference over southern bishop James O. Andrew, who owns slaves. Resolution declares he must step from post. Angered Southern delegates work out plan for peaceful separation; the following year they form Methodist Episcopal Church, South.


North
Key leader: Orange Scott, abolitionist minister from New England, first president of Wesleyan Methodist Church.

Key stands: Slaveholding a matter for church discipline; abolition.


South
Key leader: James O. Andrew, slave-owning bishop from Georgia. (He acquired slaves through marriage and renounced rights to them, but state law prohibited his freeing slaves). Later bishop in Methodist Episcopal Church, South.

Key stands: Slaveholding acceptable for church leaders; opposition to abolition.


These church divisions were the pre-cursor to our nation Civil war. Think about it our churches could not even resolve the issue of slavery among themselves. How could our nation?
 

5fish

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Ever wonder where the southern churches found the justification for slavery... The curse on Ham's

By the time of the Civil War, Gourley says Baptists in the South had long welcomed slaves into their churches, accepting responsibility for their souls if not their bodies. Refusing to accept blacks on the same level as white Europeans, Southern Baptists joined other Christians in the South equating the African race with the descendants of Noah’s son Ham, cursed to subservient status in the book of Genesis.

https://baptistnews.com/article/civil-war-changed-southern-baptists-historian-says/#.WrmgVojwZ1I

More detail:

http://mytrinitybaptist.org/what-was-the-curse-on-hams-descendants/

What Was the Curse on Ham’s Descendants?
Who were the sons of Noah [Gen. 9:18-19]?


From Noah’s three sons [Shem, Ham, and Japheth] descended the people of the world.
What was Ham’s sin [Gen. 9:20-23]?

His sin was seeing his father’s nakedness and then telling his brothers about it. This showed a lack of respect toward his father.
What was the curse on Canaan, one of Ham’s descendants [Gen. 9:24-27]?

Noah gave prophetic utterance as to the nature of his three sons that would be perpetuated in their descendants. Canaan, one of Ham’s four sons, would serve the other brother’s descendants. Noah could probably see already in Canaan the same ungodly attitudes that had surfaced in Ham. This curse of servitude was upon Canaan and the Canaanites and had nothing to do with skin color. Many believe that the black race were descendants of Ham’ son, Put [Gen. 10:6], or either Cush, who located in the upper Nile region. Notice the curse was not on Put or Cush, but on Canaan. Neither Ham nor Canaan was black, but Caucasian.
Who were the descendants of Japheth [Gen. 10:1-5]?

Japheth’s sons made up the Gentile nations north and west of Canaan. They were Greeks, Romans, Persians, and the Babylonians. What is called the European nations today.
Who were the descendants of Ham [Gen. 10:6-20]?

Ham’s son Canaan made up the Canaanites that were in the Promised Land or near the Promised Land, and fought with Israel. They made up Palestine, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Egypt, Philistine, Libya, Hittites, Jebusites, Amorites, Babylon, and all the other “ites.”
Who were the descendants of Shem [Gen. 10:21-32]?

Shem’s sons made up the Godly line of the Jews. This was the lineage of Abraham [Gen. 11:12-26]. Notice that chapter 10 is a record of the nations divided by their languages [Gen. 10:31] after the Tower of Babel account [Gen. 11:1-9]. Chronologically chapter 11 is before chapter 10. As the peoples of the world were divided in different regions according to their languages, they adapted certain physical characteristics and skin pigmentation that we identify with their race. One would be hard-pressed to get black skin as a curse, but rather the curse was servitude
 

5fish

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the Presbyterian church explains its own schism... The last section paragraphs give the southern church view of slavery ..(7 The Schism of 1861 - American Presbyterian Church)

Link:
http://www.americanpresbyterianchurch.org/apc-history/presbyterian-history/the-schism-of-1861/

Here for fun, the Presbyterians have involved two civil wars in Britain, no slaves....

Link:
http://bcw-project.org/church-and-state/sects-and-factions/presbyterians

Here... This is an overview the Presbyterian church during the civil war... click on the arrow...

http://tb.history.pcusa.org/resources/exhibits/civil_war/
In the mid-nineteenth century, theologians debated the scriptural justifications for or against slavery, and Presbyterians in America thought deeply about their own beliefs. The conflicts they faced would be magnified in the violent division of the nation, the Civil War. The Presbyterian Church in the U.S.A., after splitting into the Old School and New School branches in 1838, splintered further in 1861 over political issues, including slavery
 

5fish

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Southern Baptist true confederates... Here is a link to a paper explaining how the Baptist went beyond the call of duty to support the confederate cause and war effort...

file:///C:/Users/DavidandSharon/Downloads/4532-9483-1-PB%20(3).pdf

In April 1861, when the Civil War became a reality, the Southern Baptist Church was among those institutions of the South which rallied to give enthusiastic support to the war effort of· the newly formed Confederate States of America. Why did the overwhelming majority of the Protestant churches, and especially the Southern Baptist Church, feel such a strong commitment to the cause of the Confederacy? The answer to this question may be partly answered by briefly examining the background of thll church.

This...Highlight...

Baptist chaplaiJis performed heroically in ministering to the troops. Many Baptlat clergymen, mouvated by intense patriotism. joined the Confederate army, not u chaplains, but. IS- laymen. This caused a severe shortage of ministen in III:Vera1 areas. The Baptist Church allO made a strong effort to su(>ply Bibles to troops. despite the ac:ardty of Southern printing facilities. A Bapt15t newspaper. TIN Soldier's Frinad~ wu published in Atlanta expressly for Confederate troops. The. p-urpole of this paper wu twofold; first, to bolster the army morale by proviCUDg reading material, and IecOnd. to warn IOldiers of the evils which accompany army life. Abo, the South Carolina Baptists, like other migioua poups. cllstributed thousands of hymnab, religious tracts. and copies of theof the Bible amoog Confederate troops to the extent their resources would permiLU

Highlight...

Althoujth any accurate measurement of the influence of the Baptlst Church is. of coune. impossible to obtain. it seems that on the basls of the existing evidence. the Baotist Church rendered lUeat help to the Confederate cause. Primarily intandble. this help was carried out throuth their publications. their official pronouncements. their chaplains. and especially their sermons. Yet. at the fortunes of war turned a~inst the Confederacy. their efforts were in vain at Southern resistance collapsed in the face of invading Union armies.
 

5fish

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Here is the Southern Baptist resolutions on the eve of war supporting the Confederate government... Link:

http://baptisthistoryhomepage.com/sbc.resolution.civil.war.html

Highlight...

The following is the report, which was unanimously adopted, and it should be remembered that about one-half of the delegates were Georgians. Dr. Richard Fuller, of Maryland, made the report:"We hold this truth to be self-evident, that governments are established for the security, prosperity and happiness of the people. When, therefore, any government is perverted from its proper design, becomes oppressive and abuses its power, the people have a right to change it.

"As to the States once combined upon this continent, it is now manifest that they can no longer live together as one confederacy.

"The Union, constituted by our forefathers, was one of co-equal sovereign States. The fanatical spirit of the North has long been seeking to deprive us of rights and franchises guaranteed by the Constitution;" and, after years of persistent aggression, they have, at last, accomplished their purpose.

"In vindication of their sacred rights and honor, in self-defence, and for the protection of all which is dear to man, the Southern States have, practically, asserted a right of seceding from a Union so degenerated from that established by the Constitution" and they have framed for themselves a government based upon the principles of the original compact � adopting a character which secures to each State its sovereign rights and privileges.

"This new government, in thus dissolving former political connections, seeks to cultivate relations of amity and good will with its late confederates, and with all the world; and they have thrice sent special commissioners to Washington, with overtures for peace, and for a fair, amicable adjustment of all difficulties. The government at Washington has insultingly repelled these reasonable proposals, and now insists upon devastating our land with fire and sword; upon letting loose hordes of armed soldiers to pillage and desolate the entire South, for the purpose of forcing the seceded States back into unnatural union, or of subjugating them, and holding them as conquered provinces.


Hightlight...

"Resolved, 4. That we most cordially tender to the President of the Confederate States, to his Cabinet, and to the members of the Congress now convened at Montgomery, the assurances of our sympathy and entire confidence. With them are our hearts and our hearty co-operation.
 

diane

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5fish, the Southern Baptists never teach this church history. Always had the Lottie Moon Offering drive...without ever knowing who (exactly) Lottie Moon was!
 

Mike12

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They're teaching you history in Demopolis Alabama. This is from their Wikipedia...
Despite some bright spots in relations, the Episcopal Church in the South was slow to give up on the notion of the Confederacy, resulting in the military governor of Alabama closing all Episcopal churches in the state, effective on September 20, 1865. Trinity Episcopal Church in Demopolis was put under Federal guard, and during this time the church mysteriously burned down. Blame was placed on the soldiers for intentionally burning it, but this has never been born out by the facts. Aside from all of this, the more pressing matter was the devastated economy of the community and surrounding countryside, a problem that would continue through the Reconstruction era.[26]

During Reconstruction, the new authorities in charge of the government decided to move the county seat of Marengo from its central location in Linden to Demopolis by an act approved on December 4, 1868. The county appointed Richard Jones, Jr., Lewis B. McCarty, and Dr. Bryan W. Whitfield to build or buy a new courthouse in Demopolis. They negotiated the purchase of the Presbyterian church on the town square, now known as Rooster Hall, for the sum of $3000. It was conveyed to the county on April 8, 1869. The county built a fireproof brick building next door to the former church in 1869–70 to house the probate and circuit clerk offices. This building serves as Demopolis City Hall today.

I think most people probably already knew that , Steamboats and manor houses down there. I think pretty much know which upstarts are over here, and frankly, why would I know much about them?
 

5fish

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It always good to learn history... even about a small western Alabama town on the Black warrior river...

I just hope you read #3 about your Presbyterian's years before the war... and post #1
 

Mike12

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It always good to learn history... even about a small western Alabama town on the Black warrior river...

I just hope you read #3 about your Presbyterian's years before the war... and post #1
Whatever happened to this 5fish? Not that any of your analysis here is accurate? Let me ask you what makes for a proper analysis?
How would you know what the Church wants? Little weak Churches crumble and stuff? A whole section of it about the Presbyterians? This is just popular for government promoted lies to draw intellectual chutes and ladders about a split Presbyterian Church. The only enemy of a scotsman is another scotsman. The only enemy of a presbyterian is another Presbyterian. These are almost common sayings. Now look, they make money when you say that? How strange is that? Enemies of Presbyterians make that money including PC(USA).

We can safely conclude every off-shoot of British Empire planted Church of East Africa, Nigeria, India, are permanent residents as such. The usual missionary Americans and British persons in Mexico, Brazil, and Korea have made a conclusive result. Somebody mumbles in Jefferson Davis's face directly when the Presbyterian Church directly is not formed in "invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God in the independent and (character I don't like sovereign) of the States.
 

5fish

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Whatever happened to this 5fish? Not that any of your analysis here is accurate? Let me ask you what makes for a proper analysis?
How would you know what the Church wants? Little weak Churches crumble and stuff? A whole section of it about the Presbyterians? This is just popular for government promoted lies to draw intellectual chutes and ladders about a split Presbyterian Church. The only enemy of a scotsman is another scotsman. The only enemy of a presbyterian is another Presbyterian. These are almost common sayings. Now look, they make money when you say that? How strange is that? Enemies of Presbyterians make that money including PC(USA).
Anger, your are moving into step two slowly. Your Pagh has hope the cleansing go on...

Well, I started the thread read the Presbyterian section...

It is a better written post than others but it does not relate to the thread... But your anger sign of hope ...
 

Mike12

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Anger, your are moving into step two slowly. Your Pagh has hope the cleansing go on...

Well, I started the thread read the Presbyterian section...

It is a better written post than others but it does not relate to the thread... But your anger sign of hope ...
I never entered a psychology program in my life. Listen 5fish, you're insane, I'm here to help, only qualified others can even judge if you are insane, don't judge Yourself if what I'm saying is correct is that you're insane, and I need your credit card please.
 

rittmeister

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Given my explanation, that's an uninterpretable sentiment you expressed. I did well in Psychology 101.
calling other people (who you don't know) insane to their face should be a reason to do so, don't you think? talking to a pshrink is nothing negative (did it myself thrice)
 

Mike12

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calling other people (who you don't know) insane to their face should be a reason to do so, don't you think? talking to a pshrink is nothing negative (did it myself thrice)
My original idea is nowhere did I give in in arguments but I've been Demanded to counseling on 3 occasions as a Concession in Negotiations on my part, or led by custody, now what they collect from Collapsed people is always a favorite. Now steal everything you own as a security Deposit Then see what socialing your facebooking can do. lab rats.
 

5fish

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My original idea is nowhere did I give in in arguments but I've been Demanded to counseling on 3 occasions as a Concession in Negotiations on my part, or led by custody, now what they collect from Collapsed people is always a favorite. Now steal everything you own as a security Deposit Then see what socialing your facebooking can do. lab rats.
Mike you hopeless I fear for your Pagh... it seems others have tried and failed to save your Pagh... I just like a sensible sentence and a paragraph that was structured and a post that made sense from beginning to end but you seem incapable of it...
 

O' Be Joyful

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I've been Demanded to counseling on 3 occasions as a Concession in Negotiations on my part, or led by custody, now what they collect from Collapsed people is always a favorite. Now steal everything you own as a security Deposit Then see what socialing your facebooking can do.

Now I am gaining a different perspective. Stay well Mike. I am hoping for you.
 
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