Black Confederate Fads

byron ed

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Let stick strictly to the topic...the answer is that like for white men in the CSA armed forces, there are many motives for alleged black men. For contractors which most free men of color would be, it is simply to make money...
Yet just as on-topic, there not being one answer, and per some other black accounts of the war, the non-finance-related motive to protect themselves and their hostage families from either Union depredations or Confederate retribution was just as prominent and practical a reason for a black man to fight with Confederates.

It appears that as contemporary white men we're intent on insisting that we know what motivated black people during the Civil war, that we might be seen as so knowledgeable about it.

Apart from that BS, there are books written about the black experience in the CW, after all. And imho the black experience in the CW is very pertinent to a discussion about the black Confederate fad despite you're wanting to shunt it off.
 
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General Lee

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First of all, it wasn't "the" free black men of the South that fought for the Confederacy, it was "some" free black men that fought for the Confederacy. And were those actually instead fighting for themselves in an unavoidably Confederate situation? There's no way of knowing, is there?

What we know for sure is that modern play-Confederates want it to be that scads of blacks in the South fought for the cause, so they can claim the war wasn't over slavery, to avoid embarrassment in modern society. (Real Confederates knew what the war was over).

You have failed at least three times to recognize the answers we've been giving you all along about why blacks fought against invading Unions. Here it is again: to protect themselves and their hostage families from either Union depredations or Confederate retribution -- whichever came first. At no time did most Southern blacks care anything for the Confederate cause. Pfft.

Until you own up to the truth of the major impact and consequence that African-Americans had on the CW, you will continue to struggle with this.

Will you fail a forth time to recognize the answers we've been providing to your specific questions regarding the black Confederate fad?
You realize I have proven those things already, so your saying everyone of them that fought had a family held hostage, sure I'd like to see proof of that. I have shown especially in the last slave narrative I posted the feelings of one that was shared among many. So you also said they didn't care for the southern cause, which was to defend it's self from invasion when for example ( for the 4th time) Private John W. Buckner of the 1st South Carolina was 1 a slave himself and bought his freedom and for his family and built a good life. Now his family bought CSA war bonds and currency/notes and it sure seamed like they were all in, now answer me this why would a former slave fight for the cause you claim was meant to keep people like him in chains ?
 

jgoodguy

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Looking forward to a discussion of a Black Confederate Fad.
or watching folks toss scat at each other.
 
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General Lee

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I'll do the scat part but I don't see why my post was moved here, and I don't believe it to be a fad which I can prove at the other thread.
 

jgoodguy

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I'll do the scat part but I don't see why my post was moved here, and I don't believe it to be a fad which I can prove at the other thread.
Judgment call.

Besides this is a nice new thread for discussion. My 2 cents is that there is a multitude of Black Confederate motives Documentation is lacking on individual motives.
 

diane

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You realize I have proven those things already, so your saying everyone of them that fought had a family held hostage, sure I'd like to see proof of that. I have shown especially in the last slave narrative I posted the feelings of one that was shared among many. So you also said they didn't care for the southern cause, which was to defend it's self from invasion when for example ( for the 4th time) Private John W. Buckner of the 1st South Carolina was 1 a slave himself and bought his freedom and for his family and built a good life. Now his family bought CSA war bonds and currency/notes and it sure seamed like they were all in, now answer me this why would a former slave fight for the cause you claim was meant to keep people like him in chains ?
Forrest was a slave trader who had a reputation for keeping families together. What did that really mean? Well, it meant that he didn't take the kids away from their mother before age 12 - which was when they could do useful work in the fields. It didn't mean granny and grandpa weren't going to be sold, or hubby sold from his family, or brothers and sisters not sold. When he bought Roderick, a partly developed plantation needing a lot of work, he also bought the slaves. They were primarily elderly, women and children related to the men he took to war with him. These men would be free but not the others. Forrest could sell auntie, uncle, brother, son, and any other relative if he didn't get the loyalty and performance he wanted. That's what we mean when we're talking about families being held hostage. To Forrest, it was simply good business. He had a lot invested in the new plantation.

Buckner - why would a former slave fight for the Confederacy? Because he wasn't a former slave. He was a free person of color who had a good deal invested in slavery himself. He joined as an 'honorary white man' because he, too, was a planter.
 

byron ed

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If staying on topic is the thing, this thread has been absconded. We've been duped into endlessly talking about the technical veracity of a dozen or so cited instances of "black Confederate," most all second-hand, and the remainder sketchy, relying on interpretation. It's all to distract us, yes? Everybody is so busy trying to be Captain of History Facts that the "elephant" left out the back door.

The "elephant," of course, is the motivation behind "black-Confederate." Once again, Confederate Apologists and Play-Confederates want it to be that scads of blacks in the South fought for the cause. This so that they can claim the war wasn't over slavery, that to avoid embarrassment in modern society -- in a way that real Confederates, even the first Lost Causers, would not have been embarrassed.* This is the one aspect of the topic that the CA's abd PC's are desperate to ignore (and no thanks, jgg, for helping them with that).





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* J. Davis, A. Stephens, R.E. Lee, T. Jackson and N.B. Forrest (for sure) never had any illusions that slavery wasn't the the very thing on which the Confederacy was founded.
 
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Tom

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The "elephant" is the motivation behind "black-Confederate." Once again, Confederate Apologists and Play-Confederates want it to be that scads of blacks in the South fought for the cause. This so that they can claim the war wasn't over slavery, that to avoid embarrassment in modern society -- in a way that real Confederates, even the first Lost Causers, would not have been.* This is the one aspect of the topic that the CA's abd PC's are desperate to avoid (and no thanks, jgg, for helping them with that now)
I'm wondering what's the motivation of the ABCs (the Anti-Black Confederates)? It seems to me that it tends to undercut their race-baiting technique.
 

byron ed

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I'm wondering what's the motivation of the ABCs (the Anti-Black Confederates)? It seems to me that it tends to undercut their race-baiting technique.
Good question.
 

jgoodguy

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My motivation is to watch folks argue about it.
 

General Lee

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So why don't we take this back to the thread where we had been debating this the whole time, if it's a fad to you argue that over there.
 

jgoodguy

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So why don't we take this back to the thread where we had been debating this the whole time, if it's a fad to you argue that over there.
Because I like it here for now.
 

General Lee

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I get that, but with the title Fads it's already opinionated and biased. So I'll be bringing evidence where I have been because there is up to people to debate their position instead of being in a pre destined thread saying the whole subject is fad despite the evidence.
 

byron ed

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There is sufficient proof to prove his definition of a Black Confederate, but not yours.
Agreed. By this point he's shaved it down to maning a black who performed services for the Confederate Army or Navy.
 

jgoodguy

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Agreed. By this point he's shaved it down to maning a black who performed services for the Confederate Army or Navy.
Daughters of the American Revolution accepts anyone whose ancestor served the Patriot army. Used to be military only, but that resulted in no African American in the DAR.
 

jgoodguy

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Daughters of the American Revolution accepts anyone whose ancestor served the Patriot army. Used to be military only, but that resulted in no African American in the DAR.
Seems to me the UDC had a simular moment.
 
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