Bibles of the Civil War

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byron ed

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Think maybe someone cut out the bullet? A knife made that shape, not the bullet. Hence the sharp edges. A blind man (but not a deliberately blind man) can see it.
I see it the same way -- which basically neutralized any chance this could be verified as a bullet strike, yes? So c'mon Monacacy Battlefield curators; shaky verification at best.

A proper label for this item would be something like "This bible was claimed by a Civil War soldier to have deflected a deadly bullet, saving his life," which perhaps is the way the Battlefield museum does present it -- the article writer doing all the projecting.
 

diane

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It looks like the shape of hot lead to me! Kind of like a branding iron. When you look at some of the holes in people...they're quite like that. There was a CW vet farmer here in the valley who walked around with a diamond shaped hole in his forehead. Years later, when he was in his 80s, he had a coughing and sneezing fit - a regular fit of it! - and out came a diamond shaped bullet! It had been hanging out in his sinuses for half a century.

There's the bullet part of the story to match up with the Bible thread, but the rest of the story (Paul Harvey!) is intriguing. This guy was a Union soldier and when his coughed up bullet story made the news, an old farmer from next town got in touch. He turned out to be the Confederate sharp shooter who put the bullet there in the first place!
 

byron ed

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And here I want to throw up a flag. Per the article on the Cox bible: "The NPS last summer purchased the Bible for $12,500 from brokers."

First of all the valuation seems immensely inflated for such an item (A fool pays that much for an item having no particular significance in the vast fabric of U.S. history). The broker and seller are no doubt grinning behind their masks, though it's doubtful they'd be considerate enough to be wearing masks at this point. Frankly I'm already angry that Confederate artifacts sell at inflated prices anyway. It's clearly a form of racism (and don't give me the "it's what the market will bear" crap. Folks choose to speculate for a premium price based solely on a perception of a glorified Confederacy).

Second of all I'm not sure the NPS purchases artifacts to begin with.* The usual mode is that someone purchases an item on the museum's behalf and donates it.

Third of all, if the NPS paid the $12,500. for this dusty old book I'm outraged! That's our tax money and it would be so much better spent on, say, rebuilding a park path for better access or whatever. Especially to consider that a photo of this object displayed would be entirely sufficient to relay the soldier's account.


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* I'd be interested if anyone knows what NPS policy on purchasing artifacts is.
 
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byron ed

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...There was a CW vet farmer here in the valley who walked around with a diamond shaped hole in his forehead. Years later, when he was in his 80s, he had a coughing and sneezing fit...and out came a diamond shaped bullet!..This guy was a Union soldier and when his coughed up bullet story made the news, an old farmer from next town got in touch. He turned out to be the Confederate sharp shooter who put the bullet there in the first place!..
from wordhistories.net/2017/03/08/cock-and-bull:

"...MEANING AND ORIGIN OF ‘COCK-AND-BULL STORY'
The phrase cock-and-bull story denotes an implausible story used as an explanation or excuse.

The French expression sauter du coq à l’âne, literally to jump from the cock to the (male) ass, means to skip from one subject to another, the image being that incoherent talking is like switching abruptly from the topic of the cock to that of the ass..."
 
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Jim Klag

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And here I want to throw up a flag. Per the article on the Cox bible: "The NPS last summer purchased the Bible for $12,500 from brokers."

First of all the valuation seems immensely inflated for such an item (A fool pays that much for an item having no particular significance in the vast fabric of U.S. history). The broker and seller are no doubt grinning behind their masks, though it's doubtful they'd be considerate enough to be wearing masks at this point. Frankly I'm already angry that Confederate artifacts sell at inflated prices anyway. It's clearly a form of racism (and don't give me the "it's what the market will bear" crap. Folks choose to speculate for a premium price based solely on a perception of a glorified Confederacy).

Second of all I'm not sure the NPS purchases artifacts to begin with.* The usual mode is that someone purchases an item on the museum's behalf and donates it.

Third of all, if the NPS paid the $12,500. for this dusty old book I'm outraged! That's our tax money and it would be so much better spent on, say, rebuilding a park path for better access or whatever. Especially to consider that a photo of this object displayed would be entirely sufficient to relay the soldier's account.


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* I'd be interested if anyone knows what NPS policy on purchasing artifacts is.
Thought you knew everything. Very bad form insulting @diane too. You should, as a minimum, apologize to her.
 

byron ed

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...Very bad form insulting [diane] too. You should, as a minimum, apologize to her.
...apologize because you thought there was an insult there? No. And as an adult competent woman Diane doesn't need a protector, that's a bit of an insult.*

It was helpful to point out the definition of a cock-and-bull story. It wasn't Diane that originated the story she merely passed it on -- so thanks Byron Ed for calling out the story for what it is.

I can't believe what a low standard you've demonstrated in this thread, Jim, in what stories you're willing to accept as legitimate.


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* Which of us do you suppose is treating Diane fairly here? -- the one that respects her as as an adult peer or the one that would assume her the delicate girl.
 
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diane

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I ain't a girl, @byron ed , so don't talk down to me. There, we're settled!

The story is legit and has more proof to it than what is in the article I posted. I am geting too lazy these days! These guys are buried up over the hill in the next town, I've talked to the people who were involved in researching the story and involved in the reburial. There's some folks who work very hard on the local cemeteries to restore and maintain them - these two vets were of immense interest and they (the cemetery) wanted to get their stories right. Soooo - yep, this CW vet coughed out a bullet decades after he bought it and yep, the guy who shot it into his head was also local and they got together! True story, byron-ed, and if you think it's not - prove it.
 

jgoodguy

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There is a lot of Civil War artifact forgery.
We just have to apply normal Historical inquiry and ask what is the primary evidence, when did the artifact appear and what is the supporting evidence.
 

O' Be Joyful

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* Which of us do you suppose is treating Diane fairly here? -- the one that respects her as as an adult peer or the one that would assume her the delicate girl.
I dissent.



Di is notorious BDAI w/ feathers, a few girths and some saddle leather.

I wouldn't walk up around her cabin w/o preparing for a fight. Just sayin'.
 

byron ed

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I ain't a girl, @byron ed , so don't talk down to me. ..
So, re-read the posts. It wasn't me the one playing you like a girl -- it was your "protector" who assumed you needed help, as if you couldn't handle yourself.

But now with your plea, with you're wanting so much to believe this coughed-up bullet story, I'm good with downgrading it to "a shaggy dog story."

If you think this being honest local folks from the town telling the story is some kind of guarantee that this silly story is true, keep in mind they didn't originate the story either -- they assumed the truth of it as well. What's needed is a serious historical investigation. Any physical proof was long since put in the grave so we may never know.

Proper way to treat this story is to lead off with "the story is that..." and not implicate yourself in promoting a legend that you can't verify.

imho, of course, whatever your protector will have you believe about it.
 
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O' Be Joyful

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So, re-read the posts. It wasn't me the one playing you like a girl -- it was your "protector" who assumed you needed help, as if you couldn't handle yourself.

But now with your plea, with you're wanting so much to believe this coughed-up bullet story, I'm good with downgrading it to "a shaggy dog story."

If you think this being honest local folks from the town telling the story is some kind of guarantee that this silly story is true, keep in mind they didn't originate the story either -- they assumed the truth of it as well. What's needed is a serious historical investigation. Any physical proof was long since put in the grave so we may never know.

Proper way to treat this story is to lead off with "the story is that..." and not implicate yourself in promoting a legend that you can't verify.

imho, of course, whatever your protector will have you believe about it.


To put it in my most polite way...you are being a jerk, and believe me I have extensive experience being one myself.

Protector? Now, there is a patronizing term.
 

Jim Klag

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Proper way to treat this story is to lead off with "the story is that..." and not implicate yourself in promoting a legend that you can't verify.

imho, of course, whatever your protector will have you believe about it.
If bullshit was dollars . . . The "protector" is merely exercising proper etiquette toward ladies - nothing to do with patronizing or belittling them. And if we choose not to dismiss a story out of hand, it is not the same as swallowing it whole. And, in your rampant cynicism, you have offered no evidence, other than hemming and hawing, that the story is false. Put up or shut up.
 
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