American Lives-One million Gone!

[5fish]

Here's a thought....

General wisdom tells us that WWI laid the seeds for WWII and the other ill of the 20th century. Many believe Pres. Wilson ended the war to soon and this is that stone left unturned the leads to all the other ills from WWI.

The Germans never accepted the fact they lost the war for the German army was still in France when the armistice was signed. In the 1920's Hitler use this one little fact to stir up Nationalism and blame the left for Germany's losing the war. He rode this fact into being a Chancellor and to discredit any opposition from the left.

It is said it would have taken One Million American lives not counting the French or British lives to push the German army all the way back to Berlin and total defeat.

If the Germans would have experienced total defeat their would have been no Hitler and Germany would not have been the catalyst of WWII. They would have been humble by their defeat just as the Confederacy was and as Japan and Germany were from WWII.

The question is: Should America have lost One million lives and pushed Germany into total defeat and avoid the ills form WWI?

Knowing the history of the 20th century would you have order our army forward or taken the Armistice?

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Here's a thought....

General wisdom tells us that WWI laid the seeds for WWII and the other ill of the 20th century. Many believe Pres. Wilson ended the war to soon and this is that stone left unturned the leads to all the other ills from WWI.

The Germans never accepted the fact they lost the war for the German army was still in France when the armistice was signed. In the 1920's Hitler use this one little fact to stir up Nationalism and blame the left for Germany's losing the war. He rode this fact into being a Chancellor and to discredit any opposition from the left.

It is said it would have taken One Million American lives not counting the French or British lives to push the German army all the way back to Berlin and total defeat.

If the Germans would have experienced total defeat their would have been no Hitler and Germany would not have been the catalyst of WWII. They would have been humble by their defeat just as the Confederacy was and as Japan and Germany were from WWII.

The question is: Should America have lost One million lives and pushed Germany into total defeat and avoid the ills form WWI?

Knowing the history of the 20th century would you have order our army forward or taken the Armistice?

The US should of never entered WW1 to protect American Bankers who loaned money to the British. The US should of just minded it's own business. The Germans were being starved out and would of had to negotiate a peace with their enemies.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[5fish]

The US should of never entered WW1 to protect American Bankers who loaned money to the British. The US should of just minded it's own business. The Germans were being starved out and would of had to negotiate a peace with their enemies.
Kirk's Raiders

I do not know about that... Remember, the Germans brought like 2 million men to the Western front in 1918 from the Eastern front. In March 1918 they broke the line and were on their way to Paris until US troops showed up... to stop it and begin pushing them back. If we had not been there the Allies may have stopped then but would not have been able to push them back. The war was a stalemate and all the societies involved were cracking... It still would have sowed the seeds for the next conflict...

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

I do not know about that... Remember, the Germans brought like 2 million men to the Western front in 1918 from the Eastern front. In March 1918 they broke the line and were on their way to Paris until US troops showed up... to stop it and begin pushing them back. If we had not been there the Allies may have stopped then but would not have been able to push them back. The war was a stalemate and all the societies involved were cracking... It still would have sowed the seeds for the next conflict...

None of our buisness. The US was warned a long ago by George Washington to avoid foreign entanglements.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[rittmeister]

None of our buisness. The US was warned a long ago by George Washington to avoid foreign entanglements.
Kirk's Raiders

we'd probably still have a kaiser then.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

we'd probably still have a kaiser then.

I would take a Kaiser over an Austrian Corporal any day of the week.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Jim Klag]

I would take a Kaiser over an Austrian Corporal any day of the week.
Kirk's Raiders

Hitler was a gefreiter, or lance-corporal, equivalent to a PFC (E3) in our army.

 

[rittmeister]

Hitler was a gefreiter, or lance-corporal, equivalent to a PFC (E3) in our army.

he also had an ek I (which he didn't really earn) - his name being handed in by his jewish company commander hugo gutmann

 

[5fish]

Here is why total defeat was needed....

From wiki... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

The stab-in-the-back myth (German: Dolchstoßlegende, pronounced [ˈdɔlçʃtoːsleˌɡɛndə] (About this soundlisten), literally "dagger stab legend")[a] was the notion, widely believed and promulgated in right-wing circles in Germany after 1918, that the German Army did not lose World War I on the battlefield but was instead betrayed by the civilians on the home front, especially the republicans who overthrew the Hohenzollern monarchy in the German Revolution of 1918–19. Advocates denounced the German government leaders who signed the Armistice on November 11, 1918, as the "November Criminals" (German: Novemberverbrecher).

Germany needed to be totally defeat allied soldiers matching down the streets of Berlin so Germany could never rise again... Like the Confederacy never rose again... so there would be no WW two or Hitler...

 

[rittmeister]

Here is why total defeat was needed....

From wiki... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

The stab-in-the-back myth (German: Dolchstoßlegende, pronounced [ˈdɔlçʃtoːsleˌɡɛndə] (About this soundlisten), literally "dagger stab legend")[a] was the notion, widely believed and promulgated in right-wing circles in Germany after 1918, that the German Army did not lose World War I on the battlefield but was instead betrayed by the civilians on the home front, especially the republicans who overthrew the Hohenzollern monarchy in the German Revolution of 1918–19. Advocates denounced the German government leaders who signed the Armistice on November 11, 1918, as the "November Criminals" (German: Novemberverbrecher).

Germany needed to be totally defeat allied soldiers matching down the streets of Berlin so Germany could never rise again... Like the Confederacy never rose again... so there would be no WW two or Hitler...

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Here is why total defeat was needed....

From wiki... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

The stab-in-the-back myth (German: Dolchstoßlegende, pronounced [ˈdɔlçʃtoːsleˌɡɛndə] (About this soundlisten), literally "dagger stab legend")[a] was the notion, widely believed and promulgated in right-wing circles in Germany after 1918, that the German Army did not lose World War I on the battlefield but was instead betrayed by the civilians on the home front, especially the republicans who overthrew the Hohenzollern monarchy in the German Revolution of 1918–19. Advocates denounced the German government leaders who signed the Armistice on November 11, 1918, as the "November Criminals" (German: Novemberverbrecher).

Germany needed to be totally defeat allied soldiers matching down the streets of Berlin so Germany could never rise again... Like the Confederacy never rose again... so there would be no WW two or Hitler...

If the US would of stayed neutral which many Americans wanted most likely Hitler would of never came to power.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[rittmeister]

If the US would of stayed neutral which many Americans wanted most likely Hitler would of never came to power.
Kirk's Raiders

maybe a frenchman with ideas?

... and btw, how would any us government have avoided that 'trap' so expertly laid out by the 1st sealord

 

[Wehrkraftzersetzer]

maybe a frenchman with ideas?

... and btw, how would any us government have avoided that 'trap' so expertly laid out by the 1st sealord

Luis de Funès?

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

maybe a frenchman with ideas?

. .. and btw, how would any us government have avoided that 'trap' so expertly laid out by the 1st sealord

Many Americans just wanted the US to be neutral including no arms sales to either side also no loans.
Neither Germany nor the UK and France were hostile to the US. WW1 was a stupid war that the US should of just sat back and let the antagonists sort out them selves. The UK,France , Germany ,Austria -Hungery , the Ottoman Empire got them selves in that mess they can get themselves out of it. Russia did get out of WW1 although in a bad way.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Wehrkraftzersetzer]

The UK,France , Germany ,Austria -Hungery , the Ottoman Empire got them selves in that mess they can get themselves out of it. Russia did get out of WW1 although in a bad way.
Kirk's Raiders

not from a German PoV

 

[5fish]

most likely Hitler would of never came to power.

I disagree he rode those right wing lies of the 1920's into power... If Germany and British and French had or would have agreed to an armistice and later a peace agreement the German right wing would have preached they would have won the war if the left had not sued for peace.

It happen here in the 1980s old Ronnie rode that same lie in the 1980's to victory blaming the left for our defeat in Vietnam... If you do not completely defeat your enemy. Your enemy's nationalist will raise their ugly heads blaming the left in the years following their defeat, just to gain power. If a nation is completely defeated the citizens ignore these nationalist because there no questions about the defeat. Look at post war Japan had a right wing nationalist movement and it was ignore even after its leaders committed harakiri/ Seppuku for his cause...

 

[Wehrkraftzersetzer]

I disagree he rode those right wing lies of the 1920's into power... If Germany and British and French had or would have agreed to an armistice and later a peace agreement the German right wing would have preached they would have won the war if the left had not sued for peace.

It happen here in the 1980s old Ronnie rode that same lie in the 1980's to victory blaming the left for our defeat in Vietnam... If you do not completely defeat your enemy. Your enemy's nationalist will raise their ugly heads blaming the left in the years following their defeat, just to gain power. If a nation is completely defeated the citizens ignore these nationalist because there no questions about the defeat. Look at post war Japan had a right wing nationalist movement and it was ignore even after its leaders committed harakiri/ Seppuku for his cause...

he wouldn't have come to power, Paris would have fallen -> war over
btw the German militiary would have preferred a war in 1908, but we didn't start it and we didn't start WWI alone, that is a winner decision not reality.
If we would have as warmongering it would have been 1908

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

That should not be the problem of the US and a good reason as Washington said to avoid foreign entanglements.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[5fish]

1st sealord

The Brits had four 1st sea Lords in WW One... which one are you referring to... I am guessing Fisher or Jackson...

Lusitania divers warned of danger from war munitions in 1982, papers reveal

Foreign Office warning that operation 'could literally blow up on us' reopens debate over German rationale for sinking liner

www.theguardian.com

Lusitania was a legal target... again a lie helps causes us to join a war...

Divers find ammunition in Lusitania

The British passenger ship Lusitania was carrying small-arms ammunition in its hold when it was sunk by a German torpedo in 1915.An Irish dive team Tuesday recovered a sample of

www.santafenewmexican.com

Bemis has long been intrigued about the cause of a second, massive explosion reported by the survivors. "For years, it has been my belief that high explosives may have been in the ship's magazine. Now that we have been able to validate that this passenger ship was in violation of the war rules by carrying serious war materials on board, it has become even more likely and more desirable to validate the cause of the second explosion," he said.

 

[rittmeister]

I disagree he rode those right wing lies of the 1920's into power... If Germany and British and French had or would have agreed to an armistice and later a peace agreement the German right wing would have preached they would have won the war if the left had not sued for peace.

It happen here in the 1980s old Ronnie rode that same lie in the 1980's to victory blaming the left for our defeat in Vietnam... If you do not completely defeat your enemy. Your enemy's nationalist will raise their ugly heads blaming the left in the years following their defeat, just to gain power. If a nation is completely defeated the citizens ignore these nationalist because there no questions about the defeat. Look at post war Japan had a right wing nationalist movement and it was ignore even after its leaders committed harakiri/ Seppuku for his cause...

i doubt that. asuming there is a peace conferrence and not an outright victory for the central powers - whithout losing the war there's no reason for a revolution and thus no dolchstoßlegende.

kaiser bill anounces "das deutsche reich hat gegen ein meer von feinden bestanden*" and adolf tries to find a job. also with german troops in france that negogiated treaty would be in favour of germany.

but then without the yankees tricked into the war i think there's again a german party in versailles


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* meaning 'we held our own' but it's also borrowing from his speech when the war started.