John Brown's Raid

Jim Klag

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October 17, 1859 - Citizens discover John Brown, 19 men (including Brown's sons Oliver, Owen, and Watson) and several hostages including George Washington's great-grand-nephew in the armory. By the end of the day Brown, his men and 9 hostages occupied the fire engine house within the arsenal. Secretary of War John B. Floyd orders Col. Robert E. Lee and Lt. J. E. B. Stuart to the town.
 

Wehrkraftzersetzer

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also on the other site John Brown was kinda Baby Bobby Lee, breaking the law for the pursuit of (own) ideas
 

Jim Klag

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... on a rather phoney treason charge
He could have been charged by the USA for treason. Harper's Ferry was a federal arsenal. Making war on the USA is the foremost way to be a traitor. I'm not sure why the feds allowed Virginia to handle it.
 

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He could have been charged by the USA for treason. Harper's Ferry was a federal arsenal. Making war on the USA is the foremost way to be a traitor. I'm not sure why the feds allowed Virginia to handle it.
maybe Virginia

a) was quicker (rememer messenger on horseback)
b) didn't think / want attacking a federal arsenal should be made a crime
 
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rittmeister

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maybe Virginia

a) was quicker (rememer messenger on horseback)
b) Virginia didn't think / want attacking a federal arsenal should be made a crime
don't know whether virginia even has a statute about treason, but if they had one that could by definition only apply to virginians - he wasn't one of them which means there cannot be any treason towards virginia. was what jb did a hanging offence? probably yes but the way virginia handled this case was nothing but judical murder.
 

Jim Klag

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don't know whether virginia even has a statute about treason, but if they had one that could by definition only apply to virginians - he wasn't one of them which means there cannot be any treason towards virginia. was what jb did a hanging offence? probably yes but the way virginia handled this case was nothing but judical murder.
They did have laws against inciting slave insurrection which they could have called treason, I guess.
 

rittmeister

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They did have laws against inciting slave insurrection which they could have called treason, I guess.
treason is the crime with the narrowest definition in american judicary history - you can't accuse someone of treason who's not one of your guys. if i blow up your capitol treason is not in your arsenal if you can drag me into one of your kangoroo courts (i'm sure i'm way too fast for that anyway), that is. the us could have hanged him for treason if their lawyers were able to prove that attacking a federal arsenal is somehow waging war on the us. i'm sure the us and virginia could have found enough to hang him but not for treason.
 

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I think the reason they didn't try Brown in federal court was because he was shot. Patch him up to hang him because I believe the verdict was in before the smell of gun powder left Harper's Ferry! But the doctors considered him too badly hurt to be moved so they tried him for treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia and inciting a slave insurrection. He was wanted in the matter of the Osawatomi killings in Kansas, too. That's why Lee sent Jeb Stuart down to see if it was who he thought it was in the arsenal - Stuart had been chasing John Brown around Kansas and was the only one there who knew him by sight.
 

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I imagine after Virginia needed federal troops to stop Brown and his handful, they wanted to demonstrate they could do security. Virginia was roundly, if unfairly mocked for Brown putting the hoorah on the town. after all the boasting of Southern prowess.
 

byron ed

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John Brown only became a martyr and hero to the Abolition and anti-slavery movements after his death because it was useful. Before Brown's execution even some notable Abolitionists, including Frederick Douglass, had disengaged from Brown and his plans, and Anti-slavery people generally has never considered associating with Brown, recognizing him for the rabid and self-serving terrorist that he was. After his execution though -- he not longer a pain in their side -- they used Brown's legacy unashamedly to promote the anti-slavery movement.

In other words Brown was way more useful to the Abolition and Anti-Slavery movements dead than he ever was alive.

Woe to the slave South that a Virginia court decided to execute Brown under abeyance of Federal statute. It would have been far more strategic for Virginia and the rest of the slave South to have thrown him in prison, but alas that probably was not a real choice given that the ultimate power in Virginia was not her legal system but the Slaveocracy.
 

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I imagine after Virginia needed federal troops to stop Brown and his handful, they wanted to demonstrate they could do security. Virginia was roundly, if unfairly mocked for Brown putting the hoorah on the town. after all the boasting of Southern prowess.
To keep in mind R.E. Lee and the Marines under his command, as well as J.E.B. Stewart, all represented Federal authority at that point -- the U.S. Marines and U.S. Army. The hastily-gathered local militia in Virginia stood down upon Lee's arrival at Harper's Ferry with those U.S. forces.

Lost Cause would have us believe that the U.S. government was not supporting Southern states' rights at that time, when clearly in this case the U.S. overtely deferred to a Southern state's right to prosecute justice in the circumstance of attempted slave insurrection in the state. oops.
 
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Nitti

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I think the reason they didn't try Brown in federal court was because he was shot. Patch him up to hang him because I believe the verdict was in before the smell of gun powder left Harper's Ferry! But the doctors considered him too badly hurt to be moved so they tried him for treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia and inciting a slave insurrection. He was wanted in the matter of the Osawatomi killings in Kansas, too. That's why Lee sent Jeb Stuart down to see if it was who he thought it was in the arsenal - Stuart had been chasing John Brown around Kansas and was the only one there who knew him by sight.
The Potawatomi massacre was may 24-25 ,1856 way before kansas became a state on jan.29,1861 so I don't think the feds wanted him.the arsenal was Federal property,hence a federal crime.
 

diane

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I imagine after Virginia needed federal troops to stop Brown and his handful, they wanted to demonstrate they could do security. Virginia was roundly, if unfairly mocked for Brown putting the hoorah on the town. after all the boasting of Southern prowess.
Always said pride was their downfall! That's why Virginian Robert E Lee was chosen to command. Brown, however, was one of the few abolitionists ready and willing to put his life where his mouth was.
 
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